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Message Archives
The
following is a summary of closed discussions that have taken place in the
Motorcycle Tourer's Forum: You can review the messages in full on the forum.
However the summary below is intended to save you some time by avoiding thread
drift.
Index
2006 Americas Ride - Web Update The Motorcycle Tourer's Forum #13681.1
(Closed 1/6/2005)
| From: AL2000 (1343) Dec-11 10:31 pm 13681.1 |
| |
This is a Chicken and Egg thing. The web page should be
updated by the end of the day on December 12, 2004.
This is a major update. It is important that all interested go to the
webpage and and get up to speed. It is very important that you read the
home page in it's entirity.
I will make every effort to keep the webpage up to date from this point
forward.
If you have suggestions regarding the web page you can post in this
thread. |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) Dec-12 7:08 pm 13681.2 in reply to
13681.1 |
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I just completed the major update to the webpage. You
can get to it by clicking on the webpage tab above and scrolling down
the MTF Events to the 2006 Americas Ride or the direct link is http://www.mctourer.com/rides/2006Americas/index.htm
Significant information:
The index page will be a summary of of all important information. I
included a note at the top with regard to the date of the last major
update. I would encourage you to read through this page completely.
There is a lot of important information there.
The Routes and Maps Page is Tony and Dave's suggested route. The folks
researching each country should use this as the basis of there research
and if make suggested changes as they deem appropriate. Changes in
border crossing need to be discussed with the person researching the
adjacent country.
The message archive is a list of all forum messages that have been
closed. There was a lot of thread drift and a lot of different threads.
I have closed most of the old threads and while you can still search for
the messages here, I have copy and organized the important ones in the
message archive to make it easier for new riders to get up to speed.
The Participants List is only those folks that are DreamCatchers
(pre-registered). This is updated automatically with Jason's Ridemaster
program.
The Bike Page is some nice work that was done by Tony. Obviously this is
going to change with model years. I don't plan on updating this page.
If you have suggestions with regard to the website, you can post those
recommendations here and I will try to react to them as quickly as I
can. |
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| From: Alan (Tbirder) Dec-12 11:03 pm 13681.3 in reply to
13681.2 |
| |
The maps for the Central America Route section of the
Route/Maps page seem to be missing. The graphics on map1.htm, map2.htm,
and map3.htm don't show up.
Thanks so much for condensing and organizing all the info into one
place! I am trying to figure out if I can do this ride, and I have had a
tough time getting the big picture. |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) Dec-12 11:09 pm 13681.4 in reply to
13681.3 |
| |
It looks like I'm missing 4 maps.
I'll look at Tony's old site and see if I can figure out how to fix it.
Stay tuned.
It was good for me to go through the process of updating the web site.
It got me back up to speed and got me excited about the ride again. |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) Dec-13 8:51 pm 13681.5 in reply to
13681.3 |
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I think I have all the links fixed on the website fixed.
We missed uploading a few pictures, so once I figured it out, it was an
easy fix. |
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| From: Alan (Tbirder) Dec-13 11:38 pm 13681.6 in reply to
13681.5 |
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It's working for me. Looks good. |
06 Trip - For Lodging During the Trip Do You Want To? The Motorcycle
Tourer's Forum #5731.1 (Closed 12/11/2004) Poll
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| From: ITSecurity 6/8/2003 4:38 pm 5731.1 |
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| 06
Trip - For lodging during the trip, do you want to: |
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Use hotels and camp only in emergency |
| 11 votes (30%) |
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Use hotels, but camp when the schedule means a stop without one |
| 14 votes (38%) |
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50% of each |
| 8 votes (22%) |
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I like exotic insects! Camp as much as possible |
| 4 votes (11%) |
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| 37 people voted
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| From: ITSecurity 6/8/2003 4:39 pm 5731.2 in reply to
5731.1 |
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Choosing the first answer means the planners will
strongly prefer routes and schedules that will allow stops in centers
large enough to have more hotel choices. The second answer means we'll
look for hotels, but allows more flexibility if the route or schedule
places us away from major centers. People who choose the 3rd or 4th
answers either have thick skins or stock in the chemical plants that
make DEET. |
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| From: Joe Melvin (Tarsonet) 6/29/2003 5:29 am 5731.3 in
reply to 5731.2 |
| |
Remember this is a VERY long trip... most of us will not
have the dough to motel "every night". Agreed that a once in a while
camp would be nice but its not going to cover the lost expense of the
motel.
Unfortunately I wont be able to afford the motel much at all.
Lots of stock in Avon... Skin-So-Soft is the BEST mosquito repellant.
Dont know about that deet stuff... |
06 Trip - How Much Time for the North American Leg? The Motorcycle
Tourer's Forum #5734.1 (Closed 12/11/2004) Poll
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| From: ITSecurity 6/8/2003 4:46 pm 5734.1 |
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| 06
Trip - How much time for the North American leg? |
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Get through it quick - we'll be back |
| 8 votes (24%) |
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Reasonable speed, but not rushed |
| 20 votes (59%) |
|
Same pace as the rest of the trip |
| 6 votes (18%) |
| |
| 34 people voted |
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From: ITSecurity 6/8/2003 4:47 pm 5734.2 in reply to
5734.1
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A lot of the discussion has assumed that we will move
through Canada and the US (and possibly Mexico) at a faster pace before
reaching Central America and slowing down. Part of this is because of
roads, and part because of the opportunities most of us will have in
future to ride in North America - if we have to save time, this may be
the best place to do it.
However, we need to test this assumption, and we want your opinions. By
the way, "quick" does not mean Iron Butt pace, but it does mean longer
riding days than later, at least in terms of miles. |
06 Trip - How Long Are You Interested in Taking for the Ride? The
Motorcycle Tourer's Forum #5733.1 (Closed 12/11/2004) Poll
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| From: ITSecurity 6/8/2003 4:44 pm 5733.1 |
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| 06
Trip - How long are you willing/interested to take for the ride? |
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The least time needed to do it as a group |
| 1 votes (3%) |
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I'm under time pressure, but I want to do as much as possible |
| 12 votes (34%) |
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I'll take the time required for a once in a lifetime trip |
| 17 votes (49%) |
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I have a VERY understanding boss and/or spouse |
| 2 votes (6%) |
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I will find a new job or career whenever we get back |
| 3 votes (9%) |
| |
| 35 people have
voted so far |
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| From: ITSecurity 6/8/2003 4:45 pm 5733.2 in reply to
5733.1 |
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It's likely this trip cannot be done as a group ride in
less than 40 days, regardless of how fast we try to go. Many people want
to see more of things along the way, and that will add days to the trip.
This poll will help us select a route that best reflects the balance
between the different objectives and constraints we all face. |
06 Trip - What are your Preferences or Goals for the Ride? The Motorcycle
Tourer's Forum #5732.1 (Closed, 12/11/2004) Poll
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| From: ITSecurity 6/8/2003 4:41 pm 5732.1 |
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| 06
Trip - What are your preferences or goals for the ride? |
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The ride itself; I'm not into scenery at less than 30 mph |
| 2 votes (6%) |
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Mostly the ride, but some sightseeing |
| 18 votes (51%) |
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Meeting local people and seeing the route |
| 8 votes (23%) |
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Natural wonders (waterfalls, mountains, etc.) |
| 4 votes (11%) |
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Mayan or Incan ruins, local markets, etc. |
| 3 votes (9%) |
| |
| 35 people voted |
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| From: ITSecurity 6/8/2003 4:42 pm 5732.2 in reply to
5732.1 |
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We all have different interests, and we will plan so
that everyone gets something they want fairly often. This may be in
optional side trips, or during rest days, or so on. However, your
answers here will tell us how much to bend the route to work these
things in.
For this question especially, we encourage you to respond with places or
things along the way that are most important to you! |
06 Trip - Are you interested to ride into Columbia or other troubled areas?
The Motorcycle Tourer's Forum #5730.1 (Closed, 12/11/2004)
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| From: ITSecurity 6/8/2003 4:35 pm 5730.1 |
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| 06
Trip - Are you interested/willing to ride in Columbia or other
"trouble" areas? |
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Prefer to avoid them if possible |
| 24 votes (67%) |
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Will travel there if necessary, but not strongly drawn to them |
| 7 votes (19%) |
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Not concerned by the situation, use as we see fit |
| 5 votes (14%) |
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| 36 people have
voted so far |
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| From: ITSecurity 6/8/2003 4:36 pm 5730.2 in reply to
5730.1 |
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Using Columbia's roads (for example) might reduce the
cost and difficulty of getting around the Darien Gap. However, US and
Canadian government advisories may now or in future recommend that
citizens not travel within Columbia or other countries on the possible
trip route. This poll will help guide us in recommending a route, and
will also shape our decisions should changes become necessary as the
time for the trip approaches. |
06 Trip - How much dirt, gravel or unimproved road do you want to travel? The
Motorcycle Tourer's Forum #5729.1 (Closed, 12/11/2004)
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| From: ITSecurity 6/8/2003 4:33 pm 5729.1 |
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| 06
Trip - How much dirt, gravel or unimproved road do you want to
travel? |
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Only when necessary - less than 10% |
|
| 23 votes (68%) |
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I'm flexible, and so is my bike - 10% to 40% |
|
|
| 11 votes (32%) |
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As much as possible - more than 40% |
|
| 0 votes (0%) |
| |
| 34 people voted |
|
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| From: ITSecurity 6/8/2003 4:34 pm 5729.2 in reply to
5729.1 |
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If the majority of people opt for one of the above, or
split between two, we will recommend routes that reflect that choice.
PLEASE REMEMBER - if you select one or another of these choices, it may
also have a substantial effect on the choices for equipment, including
your choice of motorcycle! |
2006 Americas Trip - Call for Volunteers The Motorcycle Tourer's Forum
#12778.1 (Closed, 12/11/2004)
Alan and Tony have passed ride manager
responsibilities back and forth due to personal time constraints. As a
result, we have dropped the ball more than once on getting assignments made.
The current volunteer signup is at Adventure Riding - 2006 Americas Ride
Research Signup
The
Motorcycle Tourer's Forum #13317.1. We know that our
ineptness at getting folks assigned has been frustrating. We are now in high
gear and hope to avoid any further debacles.
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| From: ITSecurity Oct-4 9:16 pm 12778.1 |
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Some of you have volunteered in the past to take on
parts of these tasks, others have discussed matters but not yet
expressed a particular interest. We now need you to confirm your
interest and enthusiasm by taking part in the planning effort. If you
have already started on something, please confirm your interest - if you
have not yet, then consider what areas are your best chance to
contribute!
Post in this thread to confirm or volunteer your contribution!
Here is the current task list for preparations:
Route planning
Establish routes.
Identify waypoints.
Identify target dates for each waypoint.
Ride organization
Determine if and how we will divide up the group.
Timing between groups.
Language skills
Identify all participants that have some command of Spanish.
Point out any suggestions for training.
Motorcycles
Selection
Identify all suggested bikes to make the trip.
Establish recommended list (preferably no more than three).
Develop a matrix of the attributes of each bike.
Research reliability of each and include availability of dealers.
Parts and repair preparation
Recommendations for purchase, including quantities.
Include any extra tools that might be needed.
Develop strategy for maintenance points en route.
Contact dealers where maintenance may be performed.
Passports, visas, and travel requirements
Develop recommendations including punch list of paperwork required.
Carnet de Passage and how and when to obtain (see Insurance and Safety)
Recommended vaccinations for each country.
Communications
Develop guidelines for communicating.
Investigate satellite phones, etc.
Recommend bike to bike solution
Develop recommendations for equipment, quantity and where to
purchase/rent
What government restrictions will we encounter?
Navigation planning
Assure we have sufficient maps.
Identify any GPS capabilities we have/need.
Verify fuel availability vs route
Maintenance
Assure we have sufficient skills.
Identify maintenance stops in route.
Sponsorship
Develop suggestions.
Poll local dealers and clubs.
Identify opportunities from manufacturers, others
Shipping
Based on previous experience develop suggested shippers list.
Verify shippers' viability (periodic)
Negotiate multiple bike deals
Insurance and Safety
Identify insurance requirements for each country
Investigate and negotiate air evac insurance
Identify any medical expertise participating in the ride.
Develop medical first aid kit (probably much more extensive than we
would normally carry). |
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| From:
puffmtd Oct-4 10:45 pm 12778.2 in reply to 12778.1 |
| |
Alright let's go...first, one question, well probably
lots but is this mainly for the flower sniffin' ride or for both?
Everything I looked at is based on the endurance ride but will be
applicable to both. Just ballparking the mileage on a straight run, no
looking around or side trips, round trip from my house back to my house
is right around 25,000 miles. Again just averages...figuring 40 miles to
the gallon that's 638 gallons of gas...I used $2.10 a gallon for a base
and ended up with 1,339.00 for gas. On the KLR I figured 3 or possibly
four rear tires and two front, 1 chain and possibly sprocket change,
running synthetic.. 3 oil and filter changes, the valves probably need
to be looked at somewhere in there. I did some looking around last night
and there is a Kawasaki dealer in Guayaqil, Ecuador where the bikes will
get off the plane so that might be a good time to do some maintenance.
Actually there a lot of dealers listed all through Central and South
America but as to reliability, who's knows at this point.
I don't think a Carnet De Passage is required anywhere in South America
and as far as I can find out, Mexico is the only country that is gonna
require supplemental insurance. Passport and lot's of copies of bike
registration, drivers license etc. will be needed. I've been looking for
vaccination requirements but haven't found any yet.
There is a website (in Spanish) that has the Garmin maps for Chile,
Ecuador, and Argentina available for download. I thought I had it in my
favorites but I will have to find it again.
I did some reading up on Medjet and it sound's like a pretty good deal
in case anyone needs to be evacuated for a medical reason. They have a
motorcycle program also. If you need inpatient care they will fly you
from practically anywhere in the world to the hospital of your choice.
If your not able to ride your bike out of they country you were injured
in, they will fly your bike home also. It runs 195.00 a year or they
have multi year deals. Actually pretty cheap insurance in case (heaven
forbid) someone needs it.
http://www.medjetassistance.com/plan_motorcycle.asp?partner=
As to times of departure, again this is based on the endurance ride, I
would like to throw out August 1 for kicking around. The average
temperatures in prudhoe are (and these are all highs) 55, Salt lake City
- 90, Phoenix -100, 105 (Ugh!), and Ushuaia - 47. It should also put us
past the rainy season for South America but probably right in the middle
of it for Mexico.
I bought a Spanish book yesterday that looks like it's gonna be pretty
helpful in learning the language. It's named "Madrigal's Magic Key to
Spanish". So we'll see. I have a coworker that has family in Panama City
and he's gonna check with them to see about availability and reliability
of some of the motorcycle dealers there.
I've got some other stuff to look at so any place I can help just
holler. You can stick me where ever you need me (did I say that?) |
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| From: bigtexrider Oct-5 2:13 pm 12778.3 in reply to
12778.1 |
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I worked on "stuff" I knew best, paper work.<G>
Passports, visas, and travel requirements
Develop recommendations including punch list of paperwork required.
Carnet de Passage and how and when to obtain (see Insurance and Safety)
Recommended vaccinations for each country
Insurance and Safety
Identify insurance requirements for each country
Investigate and negotiate air evac insurance
Identify any medical expertise participating in the ride.
Develop medical first aid kit (probably much more extensive than we
would normally carry).
These are the things I have some notes on (I believe I sent you some of
them) and will complete the research if you want me to.
I do have a famly member that has set up progams at universities in
California and China dealing with geriatrics, so she may be able to
offer some advice for us old guys while traveling.<BG> |
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| From: wadewg Oct-12 8:34 pm 12778.6 in reply to 12778.1 |
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I'l take commuication requirements and help with travel
documents. |
2006 Cross Continent Tour
The
Motorcycle Tourer's Forum #3453.1 (Closed, 12/11/2004) This was the initial planning thread and was started
11/30/2002
This thread is quite lengthy so it has been divide into sections the best we
could as follows (Click on the index below to go to a particular section):
| From:
AL2000 (1343) 11/30/2002 11:23 pm 3453.1 |
| |
I need a couple of years to save for this trip, but want
to be young enough to do it. It will take some serious planning to pull
this off. Maybe we will have a back-up date of 2008.
This trip will go from Prudhoe Bay, Alaska to Puerto Espanol,
Argentina.
If you would be interested in doing this trip. Sign up here!
Nankoweap (Jason Jonas), Saftnut (Don Kime), Joe (Iceman) May, and I
(Alan Leduc) are already on the probable list.
I think if we set a date (year) and get serious about this, we can
make it happen. How about it? |
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| From:
JasonJonas (nankoweap) 11/30/2002 11:31 pm 3453.2 in
reply to 3453.1 |
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that will give me some time to learn some rudimentaey
spanish. |
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|
| From:
Wheeldog 11/30/2002 11:39 pm 3453.5 in reply to
3453.1 |
| |
the wife said I can go.......she ain't really
awake........but now that I put it in writing, she can't back out.;-)
Will probably take me that long to teach her how to run the dump
truck......so she can fill in while I'm gone. LOL
Ya got to get somebody to commit who speaks Spanish/Mexican though. (Joe
don't count) |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) 11/30/2002 11:42 pm 3453.6 in reply
to 3453.5 |
| |
"Ya got to get somebody to commit who speaks
Spanish/Mexican though. (Joe don't count)"
That won't be a problem. I figure we will need to pay an escort through
most countries anyway. |
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|
| From:ITSecurity
12/1/2002 12:13 am 3453.8 in reply to 3453.1 |
| |
With my work and other issues, there's no way I should
even answer this post...
So what else can I do but say maybe, possibly, if I can figger out how,
and maybe even if I can't, put me on the list as a candidate. If I can't
go, I'll do everything I can to make sure it works out for those who do.
Just remember -- we need not only espanol but portugeso! |
| |
|
| From:
99REDWINGSE (RDICKERSON2) 12/1/2002 1:29 am 3453.14 in reply
to 3453.1 |
| |
I would be interested... Do you have a time frame to do
the entire trip...
Expenses will be large, but perhaps, more manageable with a group
splitting rooms, etc...
The bike can make the trip, and all I have to do is get the proper time
off work. I have known people to actually quit work when they got the NO
answer, and just get re -hired when you come back. If you are not gone
more than 90 days, then you are still on their employee roles most of
the time, and it is treated as a re-instatement for their insurance
purposes
All you lose is your established dispatcher, and sometimes, he will even
take you back with open arms, after all the real winners that pass thru
the doors of trucking companies. |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) 12/1/2002 1:32 am 3453.15 in reply
to 3453.14 |
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No idea about any details. I won't even start to think
about it much until after this summer. But I wanted to establish a year
to work toward. I'll add you to the list. Oh, don't you speak spanish? |
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|
| From: 99REDWINGSE (RDICKERSON2) 12/1/2002 1:38 am
3453.17 in reply to 3453.15 |
| |
I have taken three years of Spanish and can understand
more from reading, and do less talking. I have also lived with a family
for a month, and didnt starve to death. That was back in 1970, and there
are many 'dialects' in Spanish. |
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| From:
Todd (drtryan) 12/1/2002 7:37 am 3453.20 in reply to
3453.1 |
| |
I'm interested in doing it. But the only other language
I speak is German. |
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|
| From:
chancan 12/1/2002 12:29 pm 3453.34 in reply to 3453.1 |
| |
put me in as a dreamer on this one. sounds like a lot of
fun. |
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|
| From:
Joe (ezriders) 12/1/2002 1:33 pm 3453.39 in reply to 3453.1 |
| |
Talk about enabling... I bought both books and am
looking forward to at the very least finding more information about the
trip. My son pointed out that I will have to probably buy a dual sport
for the trip, so I had better start saving pennies now. I know enough
Spanish and Portuguese from living in Brazil for a short while that I
can survive and at least eat and find a bathroom on the trip. I could
probably even ask directions if I got lost.
For the time being, list me as a probable for this trip. OMG, did I
really write that? LOL. |
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|
| From:
RalphWiens 12/1/2002 2:18 pm 3453.40 in reply to
3453.39 |
| |
Put me down as a 90% definate (100% unless health
issures come up). I have been wanting to do this trip for the last
couple of years but didn't have anyone to ride with. Will have to start
looking on what bike to buy (new or used) and start setting it up. I'm
in Virginia, so will have to meet the group on the west coast somewhere.
Hopefully we allow enough time to enjoy the sights. It has been
suggested to me to bypass Columbia by boat from Panama Canal due to both
lack of roads and political climate. |
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|
| From:
jdpfms 12/1/2002 4:57 pm 3453.44 in reply to 3453.27 |
| |
Sign me up. Even though I'm a gynecologist, I can carry
a medical kit, meds, minor suturing etc. (who needs local anesthetics
for such a tough bunch, huh). Now I have 4 years to plan. What bike, how
long to take to Alaska and back from Puerto Espanol yada, yada. Lots to
think about. BTW, I have a nephew who lives in Costa Rica who may help
with place for service etc. |
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|
| From:
Randor (Kirgiss 12/1/2002 5:37 pm 3453.47 in reply to 3453.1 |
| |
I am a strong MAYBE. If it is going to be before July of
2006, I won't make it. Will probably be moving back from Europe at that
time. I was planning on getting a Wing when I returned anyway so it
would be a good time to get something new for the trip (don't think I
would attempt it on the Intruder). The 2008 time-frame would be more
practicable for me. |
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|
| From:
Braz (DBraziel1) 12/1/2002 9:33 pm 3453.59 in reply to 3453.1 |
| |
Definitely interested in this, but may have to give up
MTF lunches for a year or two to afford it. |
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|
| From:
RocketMan (71gremlinx) 12/1/2002 10:33 pm 3453.62 in reply to
3453.56 |
| |
Since this is a couple of years away, another good
choice for a bike might be the V-Strom 650 that is supposed to be out
next year. |
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|
| From:
chfnelson 12/2/2002 6:55 pm 3453.84 in reply to 3453.1 |
| |
By 06 I should be ready for this, if it is a go. And I
will definitely have a bike like the KLR. My suggestion is encouraging
no more than three brands of bikes, so mutual support will be available.
As far as the interpersonal relations, being cooped up in a van is much
different than riding in a group. Varying position in the group will be
handy, so you don't feel like running down the sob who was in front of
you yesterday.
Accommodations will be a very important consideration. In many places
you do not want to camp out at night. And disinfectant powder will be a
big consideration. Nothing worse than riding all day on rotten roads,
being hassled by the local constabulary, shot at by rebels, and dodging
drug lords, only to find your only lodging is a real flea bag.
Uh,,,,,,,,why does this not turn me off?
OK, Alan, everyone knows I am certifiable, so add me as a maybe. |
| |
|
| From:
YOGI (TomMaiden) 12/3/2002 11:59 am 3453.95 in reply to
3453.94 |
| |
What is wrong with all You People?
Do None of you have any common Sense?
Do you really realize What you are Planning here?
Where can I find that Kawasaki really cheap sounds like fun!
I doubt I will be able to participate but you never know..Maybe Kent
will loan me his V-Strom ;^) I get 4 weeks of Vacation but don't know
what company Policy is on being Kidnapped ;^) |
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|
| Slovak (p271) 12/3/2002 4:48 pm 3453.107 in reply to
3453.92 |
| |
I've done a bit of a research on this kind of trip
before. So to get it out of the way, add me to the list. |
| |
| From:r1150gs11
12/3/2002 6:33 pm 3453.110 in reply to 3453.109 |
| |
I might be interested in this journey. 2006 is pushing
it out there a mite for me though. I may have missed it: Did you
establish a time of the year for the ride? The seasons are reversed down
there. ;-)
I thank Andy for mentioning this thread to me.
Se, habla espanol. Senor, una cervesa, por favor. Gracias, amigo. |
| |
|
| From:
Doug (jdwoodall) 12/4/2002 1:49 pm 3453.143 in reply to
3453.1 |
| |
Sounds interesting, but there is no way I could commit
to something like with anything stronger than a "possibly". It sounds
like an '04 or '05 thing from your original post. No doubt, I'd love to
do something like this, so if you have a maybe category, put me down.
We'll just have see how the wheel spins between now and then. BTW, my
spanish is lousy, if I could convince my wife to come along, that would
be a major plus in the language category. Do you have any idea how long
this would take? I'd guess 3 to 4 weeks, one way. I guess we could look
into have bikes shipped back to a US port from Argentina if time got to
be a major issue. |
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| From:
KatsDad 12/5/2002 12:43 am 3453.148 in reply to 3453.1 |
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Add me to the most definitely probable list - been
working on a trip like this off and on for a while, and accumulating
gear to do it.
I'm up for this but do need to figure out how to get the time off work
to do it. If things work out for me with a new venture in the next few
weeks, I could be in a good position for an extended absence in a year
or two. |
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| From:
route66jim 12/5/2002 3:44 am 3453.149 in reply to 3453.1 |
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You guys are INSANE! (I guess that's why I like you
all.)
I am not a forum regular. More of a Lurker. But who could read this and
not be enticed?
It would be the easiest thing in the world to say, "Count me in" just on
dreaming alone. I know this group is good at backing up their talk, but
bear in mind that in the general population if 50 people say they will
do a long ride, all but 10 will cancel. Alan, you know this bunch. More
will come through than won't. But do you expect more than 1/2 who say
they are in to follow through? They seem like the type, but kids get
sick, the economy zig-zags, and even people falling in love (or out) can
affect their commitments.
I have never desired to do anything like this trip you are planning.
I've read a couple of books about pioneers in motorcycle adventure. The
prospect of following in their shadow is a "dream" that is highly
"seductive" to say the least. I don't want the seduction of a dream of
glory to induce me to commit if I can't. It would be so easy to say
"yes."
While I have had no ambition to undertake such an odyssey, I am tempted
to want to join, because I see it as a once in a lifetime opportunity. I
do not have access, personally, to the resources that this fine group
can muster, so by seizing this opportunity I could participate in a
motorcycle trip of some significance, perhaps life defining, that will
be far better planned and executed than I could ever possibly do on my
own.
So how can I decide? I think it comes down to 3 factors:
Time, opportunity and money.
TIME
Time is not a factor for me. I have time. I can save up to 400 hours
cumulative vacation time -- 10 weeks. I have a job wherein I could very
likely get the time off, given the 3 years NOTICE I can give of the
need. And with several engineers at the same work site, there is more
than enough redundancy to temporarily fill my small shoes. Time is no
issue. So yes, I have the time for this trip.
I recently finished a 12,000 mile American trip that took 38 easy days,
almost all on the bike. The trip you are proposing could take 8-weeks
when you consider the unexpected. What if the US war on terrorism
requires the US to close the Panama Canal for a week? Or if some strike
or political unrest causes a few days delay in crossing the Gap? Do you
head back home and say "well we tried" or hole up on the cheap until you
can head further south?
What happens if half the party come down with some common jungle fever
to which "Norte Americanos" are rarely exposed and for which they have
not developed immunities? Do the rest wait in support or do you abandon
the infirm to their own devices. I think a battery of vaccinations are
required to travel in Central/South America. And certainly everyone
knows to tell the waitress "no ice in the cola, por favor" (or if you
are forgetful like me, stick to bottled-water and beer.) But I think it
is extremely likely that most people are going to get ill at some point
on the trip, given the hygeine and sanitation that can be encountered in
some towns, hotels, restaurants and bathrooms (or lack thereof) along
the way. And we haven't even gotten into weather conditions and
potential storms that must be circumnavigated or waited upon. This is
not to say the journey would be aborted. But that Mr. Murphy could
possibly turn a planned 6-week trek into a 9-week one. Does everyone
know that going in and can they commit to the 9-week contingency? I
strongly believe I can. I need to make sure.
OPPORTUNITY
Unlike so many others, I have no family commitments that would prevent
my going. No wife or darling. I am not critical to my employer. I don't
even have a dog that will miss me. (My cat will do just fine temporarily
adopting someone else to pamper him.) So yes, I have the opportunity for
this trip, because I don't have commitments that will conflict with my
being gone for 8-10 weeks.
So far, so good. 2 yesses out of 3!
MONEY
Aye, there's the rub! I have no doubt I can afford this trip, but I
can't quantify it. $5,000 for a dual-sport vehicle. $2,000 to equip it
and myself for what may essentially sometimes be back-packing via
internal combustion engine. Gas, hotels, spare parts, meals, drinks,
attraction fees, tolls, parking costs, pictures, souveneirs, phone
bills, postage (gotta send home the souveigners -- can't carry 'em),
spare parts, tire changes, oil changes, possible accident repairs,
possible hospital bills until insurance can reimburse, transportation
over the Darien gap and transportation for me/bike back to San Francisco
(or probably more $$$ if I ride her home) and I haven't even tipped the
dancing girls yet! What else am I missing here? Oh yeah, the bribes and
police fines/fees some here have warned of. I almost forgot. It must be
fun when the local cops fine you out of your pocket change, then the
Federales you meet in the next village don't believe you when you say,
"Soy oficial arrepentido. Yo no tengo dinero." I'll bet they take
American Express.
If I do this, I can save shipping the bike to Alaska by buying the bike
over net/phone, fly from San Francisco to Anchorage, pick up the new
bike and ride to Prudhomme Bay for the start.
Still and all, we are not talking $10,000 here. Closer to $20,000-ish,
or am I completely out of line? I guess I need to get a better handle on
the costs before I commit. I can afford it. I am just deciding how badly
I want it. 20,000 bad? And I am always WAY over budget, but that is just
me ;-)
I think what you are planning is awesome. The word is overused. It is
accurate this time. I dream of being able to commit to this. I hope I
can let you know soon. And to those who do this -- there seem to be
several here that will do it unblinklingly -- you have my undying
respect. You are truly special. |
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| From:
K12RoadKing 12/9/2002 2:18 pm 3453.225 in reply to 3453.1 |
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Please add my name to the list and help keep my wife
from finding out! Howard Burcham |
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| From:
YankeeJohn 1/7/2003 7:56 pm 3453.367 in reply to 3453.153 |
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I'd like to join in on the insanity er uhm the fun. |
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From:
gll 1/7/2003 11:59 pm 3453.369 in reply to 3453.368 |
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Recently the company of idiots has suited my fancy.
Please add me to the list. |
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| From:
hoggsnob 2/27/2003 11:49 pm 3453.403 in reply to 3453.15 |
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I made mention of this ride being a dream ride for me on
the HDI BBS. I was refered to this this site by another poster on the
HDI site. I have no idea of what an undertaking like this will cost but
will say none the less that I would like to sign up. The year 2008
sounds realistic and at least would provide time to aquire the neccesary
funds. Perhaps sponcership would be one possability???
Mort aka Hoggsnob.... |
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| From:
Griffin414 2/28/2003 12:48 pm 3453.405 in reply to 3453.400 |
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Thank you for sharing the info. I'm sure looking forward
to making this trip, and enjoy everyone's insight |
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| From:
flyingreg 4/13/2003 11:43 pm 3453.428 in reply to 3453.1 |
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After reading about a hundred of the posts to this
thread on traveling the length of both North, Central, and South
America, I have deduced you have all finally lost your minds completely.
So, sign me up to the list! I can be as crazy as the next sane person. I
have been a list member for about 6-7 months, just lurking in the
shadows. For those who don't know me, I ride a 2002 GL1800 Goldwing. I
call Bakersfield, CA home for the time being. I have been riding since I
was a kid and I just survived my 45th B'day. I look forward to getting
to know a few of you. |
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| From:
caminolargo 4/22/2003 5:12 pm 3453.435 in reply to 3453.1 |
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I ran across this forum by accident while planning my
50CC for May of this year. The chances of a working stiff like me ever
getting to do anything like this are remote, so it's a pipe dream for
me. I started reading posts and just didn't have time to finish all 400
something of them, so forgive me if someone has mentioned this. I think
the perfect bike for this trip would be the KTM LC4 Adventure. It's a
plenty of horses, reliable, tough, light weight, high quality motorcycle
that you can pack down. Gas mileage is good, luggage is available
similar to the beamer, and it sports KTM's Dakar proven quality. Large
bore single cylinder provides plenty of torque and the suspension will
get you out of most any situation that is get-outable. Also be on the
lookout for the new twin cylinder 950! I also wouldn't discount other
lesser known and more expensive bikes such as Cagiva's Grand Canyon and
the soon to be released Ducati Multistrada. I currently own an LC4 Hard
Enduro, and if by some miracle I can convert it to an Adventure, save up
the 25k, and arrange for a sabatical from work, I'd do the trip.
Bryan Kabe |
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| From:
bigtexrider 4/23/2003 11:41 am 3453.441 in reply to 3453.430 |
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Don Kime got me interested in this ride. I'll be retired
(end of this year) by then (mostly am now) so time is not a factor. Will
have to count the pennies to see if I have enough. Keep me posted on
what the plan is and what is needed. |
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Joe Melvin (Tarsonet) 5/17/2003 8:57 am 3453.460 in reply to
3453.1 |
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I need a few years to save for this one too. WIll
get a bigger rig for it as well. Count me in! What about 2005-6?
This will be the experience of a lifetime
I could also help with the planning if you like. How long do you want
this to take? Im sure we will throw in a few bun burner runs but
personally im in it for the scenery. My uncle is a Priest in Mexico and
has been a missionary ALL THROUGH SOUTH AMERICA.
Surely I can give him my old ride or pick him up in Mexico.
He's been to Argentina, peru, bolivia, brazil and speaks quite a few of
the dialects. SURELY we can reimburse him for his time.
Hell KNowing David he'll probably just go along for the ride.
He's got friends all down there... |
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| From:
wridersteve 5/25/2003 2:00 pm 3453.462 in reply to 3453.1 |
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I stayed up until 5 AM last night/this morning reading
all 461 posts in this thread and looking at/bookmarking all the links.
Geeze what a bunch of idiots! Sign me up. I will start saving now. Let's
see... that's about $100+ per week. Yeah, I'll stop eating for 3 1/2
years and I think I can swing this ride.
I'm with Jason and a few others. I want to smell all the (convenient)
roses we can, yet not drag it out too long. Riding back north on an
easterly route and crossing over at the last possible highway gets my
vote. I'd like the whole enchilada on two wheels - except maybe a train
ride across the Amazon basin/north Brasil back to a point to cross the
Darien again. (If that's possible) Like Mike, I would prefer to ride out
of my garage and ride back into it.
My daughter is going to school in Salvador, Brazil right now. I very
likely may to go and visit her in late June. If so, I can check on the
possibilities of travel in the northeastern states.
I've ridden to Deadhorse, AK and IF the Haul Road is muddy, the chances
of us getting through are greatly reduced. The timing of this trip with
opposite seasons at each end needs much consideration. According to my
soues, June is the best (dryist) time for riding to Deadhorse. Ron Ayres
and Dan Cohen could surely tell us what weather to expect at the lower
end and advise us on the best timing to arrive. Someone posted the
latitudes of each end. The southern tip may be easier to deal with in
colder conditons than the AK end. A compromise is indeed in the cards
for us. This ride will not be a bed of roses. That's part of the reason
to do it, right?
Steve Hunter |
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| From:
stafford3327 5/26/2003 11:01 am 3453.473 in reply to 3453.1 |
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Count me in. This is a dream trip for me, as I have been
contemplating making this trip since I retired a couple of years ago.
I think setting a date of 2006 is a reasonable time frame to pull this
together.
I would suggest a face to face meeting with all potential riders late
this summer, to do some serious planning and assign responsibilities.
I have many thousands of miles touring in this country, but visited
Ecuador two years ago and saw first hand the great riding potential on
the Pan Am highway through the Andes! Wow that really stired my
wounderlust!
Bob Stafford |
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| From:
PastaBurner 5/28/2003 12:33 pm 3453.483 in reply to
3453.1 |
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This ride has been itching at me. Please put me down as
a "I really want to go, can't commit, don't even know how to broach the
subject with my wife, but it's possibly three years away so who
knows..." :) Actually, don't even put me down yet (she sometimes reads
in here).
I need to do some reading in this thread as well as some of the required
reading, and see just how much time we're talking about. Unfortunately,
a 3-month ride is out of the question. |
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From:
yourfriend4 5/29/2003 9:12 pm 3453.490 in reply to 3453.489 |
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Put me down for this ride,I can start buying vacation at
work for the next several years and I think my regular vacation tied to
that it would give me about 8 wks off,they probably won't miss me for
another 2 so I might squeeze out the time.i have travel in Mexico every
year for the last 8 yrs.I know how the border crossing works,when you
carry a vechile and boat across,also the visas,it wasn't a real hazzle
we paid a guy 10 dollars a piece to get all the paper work done and
guide us out of town.I think we paid about 40 dollars for each vehicle
and boat only thing is they expect you to turn your visas in when you
leave the country so if you fly home you may be a unwelcome guest the
next time you go to mexico,oh yeah I did mail mine back one year and did
get in the next so i guess that works too.I sure hate to have to buy
another motorcycle but there is no way I would try that ride on a
goldwing,I thing getting thru Mexico will be fairly cheap we never spent
much money,gasoline is kinda weird though probably want to carry plenty
fuel filters for the bikes.It is awful dangerous driving on there roads
also,you have to forget everything you know from the states and go by
theirs.when they honk or flask their lights that means they are passing
regardless whats coming you just better get out of their way,lol,I can't
wait let the adventure begin.If I can be of help let me know,I am slow
but steady.your friend |
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| From:
The Wop (BDechenzio) 6/5/2003 1:40 pm 3453.514 in reply to
3453.89 |
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I' really interested in doing something like this, been
trying to get a small group together for a couple of years, and then I
stumbled onto you all |
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| From:
dsabre2000 6/16/2003 9:18 pm 3453.529 in reply to 3453.130 |
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Put me on the list, not a doctor but I'm a EMT so I
willhelp provide ems for the group. steve Dickow |
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| From:
wadewg 6/16/2003 10:19 pm 3453.530 in reply to 3453.1 |
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You have got to stop doing these things, it's driving me
crazy. I'm in if you will let me. Proposed ride is my BMW 1150GS/AD.
If we are going to standardize bikes, I vote for 650PDGS if not using
1150GS. |
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From:
PaulK39 6/17/2003 6:11 pm 3453.540 in reply to 3453.462 |
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Geez, just can't get away from you whackos! I ran into
Jason again in Hyder, thought you would be there too. It was great last
year hanging out at Bear Glacier with you.
So, you're going to do the big ride, eh Steve? Me too, gotta keep in
touch with you guys somehow and thousands of miles from home seems to be
the easiest way to do it :) |
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| From:
boobiker (sanchez97) 8/20/2003 10:57 pm 3453.576 in reply to
3453.574 |
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Add me to the list will be able to part of it. It's a
long way off but if God's willing and the creek don't rise. I will be
there. |
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From:
Starpilot (StarpilotO1) 8/25/2003 6:54 pm 3453.583 in reply
to 3453.577 |
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Well after many months of debate (with myself, and
the other half!), I've decided to throw myself into the "Cross
Continent" fray.
So, put me on the list Alan, I'll make a go of it!
Thanks! Buster Ingram |
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| From:
cbrdave 9/8/2003 8:24 pm 3453.595 in reply to 3453.1 |
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Sign me up! Dave Payne |
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From:
Gwdsmith1 9/9/2003 2:25 am 3453.598 in reply to 3453.15 |
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Not overly familiar with this particular forum--but I
will be now--Alaska to Argentina!!!-I'm in. What's the plan for return
trip?? Smitty |
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From:
Jim Davis (Jenady) 10/23/2003 10:05 am 3453.652 in reply to
3453.1 |
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Even though it is almost a year since the original post
I think this is something I need to do. Please consider me for the your
list. |
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From:
guide47 10/24/2003 11:35 am 3453.656 in reply to 3453.654 |
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I have read every single one of the 654 posts on this
planned trip and have decided that I would very much like to be part of
it. I travelled and toured Alaska earlier this year and had a great
time. Any help I can give the planning team just let me know
Rolf Stuber |
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From:
Speedjunky (Hotel_GM) 11/6/2003 11:50 am 3453.680 in reply to
3453.654 |
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I was talking to my wife about this and I think this
would be the ride of a lifetime. She says I'd be crazy NOT to do it.
I do like to put down alot miles, but this would be the longest stretch
I've ever attempted. So, I've decided that if I can make good time at
the great lakes gathering in 2004, I'll start looking for a dual-sport. |
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| From:
TimothyPlgrm 11/10/2003 1:40 pm 3453.702 in reply to
3453.691 |
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One of the first discussions I saw when I first came to
this forum a short while ago was this pole to pole tour. I must say, it
intrigued me so much that I read every single post. I would love to make
this trip of a lifetime, but could be constricted by finances and most
certainly time. I could get up to 6 weeks off work, but that would be
the most of it. So I'm thinking that I could maybe make the North
American leg of the trip. Yeah, put me on the list, what the hell! You
only live once! And the wife actually seems supportive of the idea after
she warmed up to it. 'Course, being only 28 right now, I'm not in any
rush in case I can't make it.
Tim Campbell |
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| From: LDRyder 12/4/2003 10:25 am 3453.706 in reply to
3453.703 |
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I really want to ride to the tip of South America.
I offer up my reasons with the following link:
http://www.silliker.ca/Ushuaia.jpg
I think you will all agree there is good reason to go as far as possible
to the southern tip of South America! Let the riding begin! |
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| From:
expatmac 2/9/2004 10:50 pm 3453.711 in reply to 3453.1 |
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I'm in. |
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| From:
rydnfool Jul-28 5:58 pm 3453.718 in reply to 3453.689 |
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Count me in unless there's an inter-galactial[sp]
invasion or my wife tells me I can't.
Tim Yow |
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| From:
Forkless_D Sep-24 8:50 pm 3453.727 in reply to 3453.725 |
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I figured it's about time that I introduce myself to you
guys and get to know you a little better. After all, I feel I already
know some of you because my name is already on the list!!
My name is Daren, I ride a 2002 V-Strom and found out about this ride
through Tony Higgins, who was a member of our local motorcycle club here
in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada up until he moved to the USA in the spring
(HUUUUUUUGE mistake as far as I'm concerned). Now he is so busy that I
never hear from him and we sure do miss him sniff...sobb...wail...........
So now I'm turning to you guys. Be gentle with my tender heart.
I've been scanning this post really, really infrequently over the last 8
months or so, and the activity here seems a tad slow (and on Tony's
Americas Ride website too). Maybe I'm just expecting to see as much
excitement on these sites as I feel inside about this trip. Whooohooooo!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway, I think Tony had the right idea when he created his website so
that everyone could see a summary of the trip, I just wish it was more
up-to-date and that the MTF site was more active. Is it just me or does
anyone else find this forum awkward to use? It could be that I just need
to spend more time in here talking with all my fellow travellers before
I am comfortable. But with now less than 2 years to go before we leave,
I'm starting to get worried......OK, maybe it's just my overly
sensitive, type A - gotta have all my ducks in a row - personality. ;-) |
| From: RalphWiens 12/1/2002 5:21 pm 3453.46 in reply to
3453.44 |
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Well, now you have got me excited. I've been researching
for the last couple of hours on what bike to get (of course in three
years this will probably change) but if I were to get one today it would
be between the BMW F650GSPD or the Kawasaki KLR650 dualsport. Motorcycle
Consumer News had a write up on preparing the KLR650 for such a trip. I
like the BMW, but thinks it may be too pretty to get scratched up. I
wouldn't worry about laying the Kawasaki down as much. How much/and how
hard would it be to ship the bike from California to Alaska? Is it hard
to do? What type of roads should I prepare for ie knobby tires (terrible
for smooth roads) smoother dirt roads, etc. I know hard question but
will need a tire that will be best for the trip.
How about the portion from Alaska to Washington, what type of roads to
expect.
May take my St1300 on the Alaska-California portion then the 650 from
California on down.
As you can tell I'm ready to go. If we decide to do this in 2004 I'm up
for that also. |
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| From: jdpfms 12/1/2002 6:09 pm 3453.48 in reply to
3453.46 |
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This is going to be a hoot talking this thing up for a
while. I doubt doing this ride in 04 or 05 but possible. I'd need plenty
of time off but by 06 may be "officially" retired anyway so no problemo.
As for bikes, comfort is going to be numero uno on my list. The KLR
doesn't sound too much like comfort to me but I could get the BMW 650 or
a 1150GS pretty comfortable and decked out with the right gear for this
trek. Here's my list based on the possible roads: BMW 650, 1150GS or
adventure, Triumph Tiger, Suzuki V strom (a real strong contender), etc.
etc. decisions |
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| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/1/2002 6:35 pm
3453.49 in reply to 3453.46 |
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<<...or the Kawasaki KLR650 dualsport. Motorcycle
Consumer News had a write up on preparing the KLR650 for such a trip. I
like the BMW, but thinks it may be too pretty to get scratched up.>>
Hi Ralph,
Not only too nice, but too high tech. Some of the reasons I went for the
KLR 650. Then you also want more range. With the gas tank where it now
is on the BMW F650, how do you increase your tank volume. The KLR does
300 miles on a tank easy.
Do you know where I can find that MCN KLR 650 write-up. I have a good
idea what I'm doing, but it never hurts to get more ideas. |
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| From: AlbinoRhino (OrionRider) 12/1/2002 7:27 pm 3453.50
in reply to 3453.45 |
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"You might change your mind about the bike you are
planning to use after you read the book. (chuckle)"
I've just started the research for the bike for this ride. The KLR 650
came to mind, and then I read your endorsement of it, so it is on my
list... lol.
For this mission, the KISR principle applies: keep it simple and
reliable. (Easy to wrench on, too.) |
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| From: RalphWiens 12/1/2002 7:46 pm 3453.54 in reply to
3453.49 |
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The KLR650 wright-up is in 3 parts. I can only find my
part 1 and 2 right now. I can make copies and fax/mail it to you. Let me
know.
Also, I would have considered the larger 1150GS or Suzuki but I think
they are possibly too heavy for this trip. I've heard reports of
crossing washed out roads in canoes and such. The KLR is only 335lbs
dry, plus gear. But once I get more info on the roads and such I may
change my mind. |
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| From:
prestonbill1 12/1/2002 9:16 pm 3453.58 in reply to 3453.49 |
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The BMW 650 gets 70 MPG and you can get a add on tank
that adds, I think, 8 gallons. With the extra plus 4.5 stock tank you
can go a lot of miles.
I went to a show by Hagdal Pederson (sp). He and 2 other guys went to
Iceland for 5 weeks and rode the whole thing. All the way around and
criss cross. The video and slides were spectacular. They rode across
rivers and where there were no roads and came through it unscaved. Two
F650s and one Honda 650.
All new bikes give the chalenge of being able to work on them. But
taking the older ones that are easy to work on isn't really an opinion
either. A few years back I was in Smithers, BC at the Harley shop and
there was a guy with a BMW there that needed a set of tires. BMWs 17"
weren't anywhere to be found in that part of BC. They were a day of two
away. Just some things to think about.
Sounds like a trip that would be a dream come true. the art of bribery
is something that should be studied. We all probably know a few good
teachers in this fine art. |
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| From: 99REDWINGSE (RDICKERSON2) 12/1/2002 11:58 pm
3453.68 in reply to 3453.46 |
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BMW F650GSPD or the Kawasaki KLR650 dualsport.
I just checked the KLR 650 buy kawasaki home page.it is listed at
4995.00 thats about 107.00 a month for 4 years. BRing it back, and sell
it after two payments. 500.00 down and RIDE
Aftermarket bags might be helpful to acquire now, and use for three
years, and test under whatever conditions you need.
The fuell tank is 6.1... but never owned one. Perhaps buy it up in
Washington, and ride to ALaska for the start.
Double ovehead cam, 4 valve, and 650... should be adequate for dual
purpose duty.
BMW 650... 8200.oo... seems to be alot for a second bike to own.
I would use the difference to purchase other necessary items, such as
stadium pal, tutu's, pumps, and hard bags with liners, and luggage rack.
Camelbak, more gloves, gas, tires, and oil,. Not to mention the lost
wages at work... Still cheaper to own the Kaw... got me to looking at
one... thanks to the enablers |
| |
|
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/2/2002 12:29 pm
3453.74 in reply to 3453.54 |
| |
<<I would have considered the larger 1150GS or Suzuki
but I think they are possibly too heavy for this trip.>>
There is a reason why my friend switched to a BMW F650 (carburetted)
from his BMW R100 GS PD for his last two trips. Weight!
He took the BMW R100 GS PD throught North and South America on his first
trip and then Europe, the Russian Federation, China, Pakistan,
Iran...and back, on his second trip. But for Africa and Australia, he
used his F650 simply becasue it was lighter.
On the downside, the F650 is liquid cooled just as the KLR is, so that
is one thing you have to prepare for. So bring some fix-it stuff for a
rad and hoses. The water pump is in a vulnerable position on the KLR. No
sweat, there are a few suppliers of "real" skid plates out there. I am
making my own.
You hardly need bigger. The KLR sails along nicely at 60 to 70 mph.
You are on a tour to see, not blast by, so it makes a perfect mount.
There are other bikes out there from Honda and Suzuki, but they all need
mods in the gas tank and seat departments. Yamaha seems to have dropped
the larger XT 600 from their line-up.
TIP of the trip: hopefully a good bunch of bikes will be the same make
and model. Anybody cluing in? Riders of the same make and model can all
carry a few different parts and have a complete inventory along.
Everyone should have a spare chain and link though. Check out the
extremely well made and throught out ultra compact tire pump from Crank
Brothers. It fits in the palm of a big hand and there are no CO2
cartridges to replace. |
| |
|
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/2/2002 12:50 pm
3453.75 in reply to 3453.58 |
| |
The F650 is fuel "infected" which means when they run,
they run great, but when they don't, you get on the cell phone which
won't do you much good in a remote area. Plus they have a fuel
pump...another item that can go wrong.
I believe in the KISS principle: Keep It Simple Stupid, or as another
person on this forum put it, KISR, Keep It Simple and Reliable. My
friend that did Africa two years ago was happy to be able to get one of
the last carburetted BMW F650s, as the new FI F650s were coming out. He
had to strip his carb twice on that tour. I wonder how a fuel filter,
fuel pump and injectors would have made out?
I get 70 MPG (Imp) or 58 MPG (US) with the KLR at 60 MPH. I also doubt
the claim on the BMW web site. It may be possible but at a lower speed
and FI is more efficient, sometimes. My KLR also has a larger gas tank
that will take me 340 miles run dry, at 60 MPH, on pavenment. I've
filled up at 295 miles and had just over 1 US gallon left. The trouble
with the current F650 layout is that the gas tank is under the seat, so
you can't just buy another tank in place of it. You have to stick it on
the rear rack or seat, whcih takes away from cargo capacity. If you can
find a low mileage, well cared for, carburetted F650, go for it. Then
get a larger gas tank...I think my friend installed an Acerbis 27 liter
tank.
The 17" tires are used on the BMW R100 GS, the BMW F650 single, the KLR
650 (and all of them the same exact size - bonus!) and who knows what
other dual sport models. A Harley shop carries tires for their bikes, so
that is to be expected.
As for Helge, I doubt he goes anywhere without good support. Iceland is
in my books for 2004 using my KLR 650, but after my annual Alps tour. I
wouldn't give them up for anything. |
| |
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/2/2002 1:07 pm
3453.76 in reply to 3453.68 |
| |
Everything in your post are the things I considered when
I made my purchase.
I'm a BMW guy and I would have chosen the F650, but choosing it would
have been done solely on the marque, not common sense.
The KLR was big time cheaper, had a bigger gas tank, had a comfy seat
and it has been around over 15 years relatively unchanged except for
troublesome areas that were fixed ages ago.
My KLR came out CA$4550 cheaper than the BMW F650. And as you pointed
out, that is some serious money to buy serious accessories. I bought
some heavy duty bag mounts from Happy Trails. I did my homework and
found them to be the best. As for bags, I will be installing some ugly
aluminum cases from an outfit in Germany for about US$90 per bag (plus
shipping). These bags have been well proven on many expeditions. They
are sold in the US, but at US$250 each. You might make a group purchase. |
| |
|
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/2/2002 1:27 pm
3453.77 in reply to 3453.68 |
| |
<<Aftermarket bags might be helpful to acquire now, and
use for three years, and test under whatever conditions you need.>>
Have a look at these bags. The prices are unbeatable. By the way, the
Euro is about on par with the US buck. I plan to go with them.
They are also sold by an outfit on the east coast...I think Capital
Cycle, but for about US$250 each compared to US$90 from Därr in Germany.
http://www.daerr.de/Artikel/MotorradBox.htm
The site is in German, so if you have any questions, get back to me. The
bags do not come with the mounts pictured, but there are far better
option anyways.
Polo, a large chain of motorcycle accessory stores in Germany carry a
similar aluminium case made by Zarges for Euro 99.95. They have a volume
of 37 liters. I'm looking at those as well.
To see them, go to:
http://www.polo-motorrad.de/polo-shop/eurobike/index-neu.php
Then insert "Polo alukoffer" (Polo aluminum luggage) in the box that
says "Suche/Stichwort" (Search/Keyword). Click on the "Suche Starten"
(start search) icon below the box. When the page pops up, click on the
"Info" button. |
| |
| From: 99REDWINGSE (RDICKERSON2) 12/2/2002 1:29 pm
3453.78 in reply to 3453.76 |
| |
Thanks for all the tips... I have had frineds that have
had the older KLR back in 87 or so. And they bought some newer 94-95
models... They were more impressed with the running of the older models,
and had a whoil;e bunch less than 4550.oo too.
Fuel injected is good on a car. And I had fuel injection on my last Kaw
1300.
BUt for a dual purpose bike, I think I would KISS, and save on a
carbureted model.. Rebuild kits are 20.00 most carb sets.
Ill be watching the almost NEW KLRs over the winter, and maybe I could
get it and give it to my daughter, she is 15... and could ride it to
school, YEAR ROUND.Those aluminum cases... I think Jason is ordering
those from Jesse James or something... it had a website... they look
terrible, but are really functional |
| |
|
| From: RalphWiens 12/2/2002 3:39 pm 3453.79 in reply to
3453.74 |
| |
I'm sold on the KLR, but remember we are taking about 3
1/2 years from now. We may decide on something else by then. Does anyone
know what type of visas if any that we need. My passport should still be
good, I'll have to check. Maybe about a year out we can start doing
group buys on everything. I will try to post Motorcycle consumer news
article on upgrading the KLR for world touring. (I've never scanned and
posted before so it will be a little trial and error) They have
recomendations on everything from increasing voltage output, panniers,
engine protection, etc, etc. They're set up new KLR with all options
ended up costing around 8k
We should start setting up assignments i.e. someone take routing,
another visa/shot requirements and any medical alerts, another keep a
list of recommended places to buy accesories for the bike and what
accessories to buy, another research camping gear and recomendations.
I was planning on heading through Nova Scotia over to the west coast of
Canada and up to Alaska in 2004 so probably will just meet on the West
coast somewhere on our trip to Argentina. I'm 48 now. I don't want to
push this trip to far out (6 years from now and still talking about it),
so if 2006 doesnt look like it going to happen, I'm willing to do a West
Coast Argentina trip earlier (I've made plans to take off from my
business June thru September for the next 4 years so I'm wide open,
except for 03, I already have my crosscountry trip planned). |
| |
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| From: Jules (GirlOnAGlide) 12/2/2002 5:24 pm 3453.80 in
reply to 3453.79 |
| |
We've been doing a lot of pricing on KLRs in my house
and there are great deals to find on used ones. While at TWO in October,
there were three posted on the bulletin board. By the time we got home,
two were sold. We were about to go to central GA to buy the third one
but opted to wait. Kaw is offering a good deal on financing now on the
new ones... fwiw.
I've posted this link before, but y'all should check out Mariola's KLR.
Hit her Tech Corner link for info...
http://rideoftheheart.com/ |
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|
| From: RivettS 12/2/2002 6:04 pm 3453.81 in reply to
3453.79 |
| |
In 3 1/2 years there will be a diesel engine for the KLR
available to the public (hopefully). Right now all of the production is
going into different military projects. They are getting 2 liters/100
kilometers with these bikes now and hopefully will get better over the
next few years. |
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| From: 99REDWINGSE (RDICKERSON2) 12/7/2002 11:23 am
3453.179 in reply to 3453.172 |
| |
Everyone needs to do some small trips on their dual
sports, when they get them... BUt in the mean time, you can read about
the BMW, the aluminum cans, and the 35 degrees of Washington State on
KATSDAD link. It was a good read... Thanks
http://home.earthlink.net/~geezers/F650GS%20Dakar.html and it
has pictures.. |
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|
| From: KatsDad 12/7/2002 12:43 pm 3453.181 in reply to
3453.179 |
| |
The one thing I'm fairly sure about with dual sports
like this is tire life. The Sahara 3s that came with the Dakar are very
good in the gravel and on the road and I guess I'll get about 5K out of
them.
The range on DS tires decreases with load bearing and seems to be around
4 - 7K depending on brand. I'm researching and will test a couple
options for longer range rubber but to get that one gets a tire more
like a street tire.
I figure that isn't bad for North America but less desirable the farther
South one gets. So - tires and tubes are a big issue for a trip like we
contemplate but a part of the fun of it too. Does one carry spares or
hope to find a shop with what you need when needed? Stuff like that. I'm
learning to fix my own flats and tire swap in the field. More of a
challenge than with tubless tires!
I'll also swap the exhaust for a non-catalytic version for the trip
South. Not sure everybody uses unleaded fuel.
Jason has a good rig too - will be interesting to see his thoughts about
it after he gets some miles on it. |
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| From: AlbinoRhino (OrionRider) 12/7/2002 6:06 pm
3453.184 in reply to 3453.179 |
| |
I enjoyed his report of the F650GS Dakar; it gave me
some things to think about. The alternator output being one of them
I rode to a Kawasaki dealer this afternoon to eyeball the KLX400SR as a
possible bike. Too small, and only a 2.6 gallon tank. While there I
checked on the alternator output of the KLR 650. The factory service
manual says "not rated;" however, the KLX 65O alternator is rated at 17A
@ 14 volts (238 watts). Assuming that the KLR & KLX use the same
alternator, we're looking at about 200 watts @ 12 volts--not enough. The
BMW F650GS alternator is rated at 400 watts. |
| |
|
| From: Andy (andy112652) 12/7/2002 9:28 pm 3453.187 in
reply to 3453.186 |
| |
Found this online comparison of the BMWR1150GS and the
Triumph Tiger. Read and enjoy.
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/bikereviews.asp?id=55 |
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|
| From: 99REDWINGSE (RDICKERSON2) 12/8/2002 3:33 am
3453.194 in reply to 3453.181 |
| |
I am not sure of the riding temps of this journey, or
the need for electric clothes. Is the alternator size of the KLR going
to be an issue... not sure on this. What are the shipping costs to skip
that Darien Gap? |
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|
| From: RalphWiens 12/8/2002 11:41 am 3453.196 in reply to
3453.195 |
| |
In reference to the power output of the KLR, when MCN
(Motorcycle Consumer News) did their mods to the KLR for preparation of
a world tourer thay changed the stator by Eectrex ($112) to gain an
additional 75 watts, bringing it up to 275W. They said this was enough
to handle the electic clothing, etc. |
| |
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| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/8/2002 11:44 am
3453.197 in reply to 3453.196 |
| |
The KLR 650's output since the 2000 model year is 238
watts. |
| |
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| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/8/2002 7:28 pm
3453.200 in reply to 3453.198 |
| |
I would also not wait till the last minute before the
tour to get one. You want to get to know the bike from a handling and
maintenance perspective. I would also not get one now, boot the thing,
put tons of miles on it, and have a worn out bike for the tour. You want
something pretty fresh (5000 miles) but with the bugs ironed out...if it
had any.
I bought my KLR 650 last August in anticipation of my Trans Labrador,
Newfoundland and Cabot Trail tour in 2003 and Iceland in 2004. This is
giving me lots of time to research the accessories I will be installing
and to get to know the mechanics of this particular machine, inside out.
Who knows what product line any manufacturer will have in another year
or two considering the emissions requirements. I would tend to think
they will all go fuel infected to meet the standards. |
| |
|
| From: jdpfms 12/8/2002 8:35 pm |
| |
There is a 4 part series on the conversion of a KLR 650
to a "global tourer" in Motorcycle Consumer News which ran a few months
ago. They seemed to use mainly DualStar and Happy Trails stuff for
upgrades. It is a good read, but the seat even with some minor changes
was a downer so one would need to look at other aftermarket makers like
Russel, Mayer etc. for the KLR.
Also of interest on the Horizons unlimited site, they said that people
have done around the world trips on just about any bike but would depend
on roads taken as has been mentioned. I torn between wanting a bike that
can handle Alaska's haul roads, uncertain roads in Mexico, Central
America and South America and also a bike that is comfortable enough to
do the miles. That is why I'd look closer at a decked out V-Strom or
R111XXGS (except one can get about 2 V-Stroms for one GS). |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 12/8/2002 9:55 pm 3453.202 in reply to
3453.201 |
| |
I'm going to make my decision based on the selected
route. If gravel or unimproved road makes up less than 20% of the total,
then the V-Strom is a clear choice. If not, then I may go the KLR route,
although I'd be reluctant to give up the power and carrying capability
of the V-Strom... |
| |
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| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/8/2002 10:24 pm
3453.207 in reply to 3453.201 |
| |
I have the Happy trails SU racks for my KLR. Well
made and thought out. Därr or Zarges bags will be on their way before
the winter is over.
I have a few items on my list that I want to get from Dual Star, the
rear brake bracket for starters. There are a lot of toys that one can
get, but only a few of them are the "need" to have items. The KLR needs
a good skid/bash plate to protect the underside and water pump. That,
I'm making myself. |
| |
|
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/8/2002 10:39 pm
3453.208 in reply to 3453.201 |
| |
Someone else menthioned that MCN article on the KLR 650.
Is it still on line? If not, did anyone save it to disc? I'd like to go
over it.
The seat on the KLR 650 is quite good, not as good as on my R100 GS but
more than good enough for 300 miles days, easy. The GS? Well that one is
good for 1000 mile days, but you won't even get close to doing those on
this trip.
High tech bikes? Do you really want a fuel pump, injectors, a computer,
etc running your bike? I know I'm going to get the usual line, "see, I
made it there and back without a failure". Well great! The point is, it
can fail so why bother with complexity. |
| |
|
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/9/2002 6:57 pm
3453.235 in reply to 3453.224 |
| |
My suggestion of the KLR 650 is based purely on logic.
This tour group might want to choose another bike. I chose the KLR 650
because it already had an acceptable sized gas tank, a comfortable
enough seat and it has been around a while. I'm not keen on liquid
cooling, because that system is vulnerable in a crash.
The other bikes I considered, the Honda XR650L and the Suzuki DR650 had
seats and gas tanks that were unacceptable. Having to spend more money
for an aftermarket seat and gas tank for models that already listed for
more didn't make sense.
Whatever a portion of the group decides on, commonality is a real plus.
You now have X people that know the bike, some better than others. You
now have a bike that everyone can be assigned to carry a certain spare
or two of, although different from the next guy. Get enough people and
you almost have a complete parts department. Certain things like quality
sprockets and a quality chain should be carried by every owner.
Bill's suggestion to get in touch with whatever manufacturer you decide
to go with is a great idea. Talk to them. Find out what kind of support
you can get along the way. Find out where the dealers are - you'll need
tires along the way. NOTE: make sure you buy heavy duty tubes like
Monster tubes which are about 4 mm thick. Maybe install some rim locks
to protect the tubes.
Commonality also applies to other items as well...does everyone need to
bring that same battery charger for their digital camera? Get the idea.
You'd be amazed how that space in those bags gets eaten up in a hurry. |
| |
|
From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/9/2002 9:47 pm
3453.244 in reply to 3453.241
|
| |
<<but the KLR radiators are mounted high up and have some protection
provided by the front side-wings>>
I wouldn't count on those plastic air deflectors. I intend to have a
water pump seal and gasket, two 1" sections of thin wall pipe with an OD
of the hose ID and a length of high temperature solder along on my trip.
Check out the Happy Trails site. Although they have rad guards, I'll
pass on them and will probably regret it. The DualStar site has some rad/fan
motor related stuff.
The stock tires on my KLR are wearing fast and this thing doesn't even
have the torque of my GS. I'll be putting on Metzeler Sahara 3s or 4s on
my KLR and Tourances on my R100GS. I got great mileage out of my
original set of 3s on my GS. Front 16.5K miles and rear 12.5K miles.
Very premature, but has anyone put a list of spares together. |
| |
|
| From: AlbinoRhino (OrionRider) 12/10/2002 5:56 am
3453.251 in reply to 3453.244 |
| |
<<The stock tires on my KLR are wearing fast and this thing doesn't even
have the torque of my GS. I'll be putting on Metzeler Sahara 3s or 4s on
my KLR and Tourances on my R100GS. I got great mileage out of my
original set of 3s on my GS. Front 16.5K miles and rear 12.5K miles.>>
No doubt I will wear out the stock tires of whichever bike I decide on
long before this trip begins, but out of curiosity, which tires are
stock on the KLR? I have great experience with the Metzler 880s on my
Venture, so it is nice to know that the Sahara 3s also perform well.
<<...but has anyone put a list of spares together.>>
This is what I have: chain, front & rear sprockets, master link, spare
bulbs of all types, starter, alternator, radiator repair materials,
radiator hose, water pump & gaskets, spark plugs, fuel & oil filters,
tire tubes & patch kit, wheel spokes & wrench, carb rebuild kit.
I don't think each rider needs to carry all the major components
(starter, alternator, water pump), as has already been mentioned,
assuming we have enough commonality among the bikes.
Also, there is a tire sealer product called Ride-on TPS (tire protection
system) at www.ride-on.com
They offer a formula for tube and tubeless tires, and I have used the
tubeless formula with good success--no punctures yet to test the
product, but it is tire friendly. |
| |
|
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/10/2002 7:04 pm
3453.263 in reply to 3453.251 |
| |
<<...which tires are stock on the KLR?>>
My KLR 650 came with Dunlop K750s stock. The bike received a gentle
break-in period and was driven on paved back roads right up to its
present mileage of 3500 kms or 2175 miles. They are almost, if not, half
worn. Not impressed.
As for your spares:
You need to have a spare master link side plate (take one from the
longer new chain that you buy), then open up the holes with a quality
file or Dremel grinding stone so that it is a loose slip fit over the
master link. You need this spare side plate to press the actual side
plate on. Bring a 1" C-clamp along. Quality O-ring masterlinks have a
press on side plate even if it has a clip. Don't press the side plate on
further than necessary or you'll crush the O-rings.
Don't forget spare front and rear wheel bearings.
Crank Brothers Dual Piston Power Pump. Less than 6" long and well
constructed.
I don't use tire sealers. I prefer HD top quality tubes. |
| |
|
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/11/2002 9:03 am
3453.274 in reply to 3453.268 |
| |
I bring a DMM with me on my tours. I bought one from
Radio Shack for under US$20 and the thing fits into a small shirt
pocket. It is the the type that is housed in a vinyl jacket sort of like
those Casio calculators were. Leads are only about 18" long though, but
all you really need.
I also have one of those butane Weller Port-O-Sol soldering irons that
look like a thick pencil. Once filled, it is good for quite a bit of
soldering or bring a refill cartridge with you. A bit of solder and
paste and you are set.
A roll of vulcanizing rubber electrical tape is a good idea. This stuff
is water proof. Some lengths of wire, fuses, etc...
Only one electrical kit needs to be brought along.
This may all sound like overkill, but it pays to be prepared. |
| |
|
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/11/2002 9:19 am
3453.275 in reply to 3453.272 |
| |
<<I haven't determined from the book whether Werner
brought his filters with him, or bought them along with the oil.>>
He brought oil filters with him and some oil...enough to top off since
we all know BMWs burn oil. Mine does, but not past the rings. LOL.
Note: The air filter on the KLR is a washable foam type which then gets
oiled.
<<My spare parts list comes to $2000, and $1100 of it includes the big
ticket items>>
Well split the big ticket items. No reason why you should foot the bill
for them all on your own, and yet have them available for everyone.
As for shop manuals, all I do is bring spec sheets and a wiring diagram.
All you need to know are some basic numbers: coil resistance, stator
winding resistance, etc. Some ignition modules can also be tested with a
DMM by following the test sequence chart.
The alternator has been mentioned. I haven't looked into my KLR that
deep. Note: It might need a dedicated puller.
Note: if all it has is an electric starter (newer KLRs), make sure your
battery is fresh and a good one (Yuasa) and filled with the proper acid. |
| |
|
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/11/2002 9:34 am
3453.276 in reply to 3453.270 |
| |
<<The questions haved been raised what
portion/percentage will dual sport be necessary?>>
Who is reading Werner's book at the moment? Mike? Its been a few years
since I've read it.
I remember Werner's rear shock going in Central America due to the pot
holed roads and very rough dirt roads. Like I said, most of it isn't US
Interstate.
A nylon shock cover that ATVers and MXers use over their springs might
be a good idea to keep as much dirt as possible away from the seal. I
think they Velcro on.
I'll also be drilling and cross drilling all rear suspension pivot bolts
and installing press in grease nipples. Kawasaki wants these items to be
throw away, I guess. |
| |
|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 12/27/2002 1:51 pm 3453.304
in reply to 3453.303 |
| |
do i remember you saying you've ridden your GS on
throughout mexico and south america? i really don't want to buy a
smaller machine just for this trip because i like my GS and plan on
riding the hell out of it. but wanted your opinion on whether or not the
GS is a good mount for mexico on down... i'm thinking it would be a
wonderful mount. |
| |
|
From: Dtop1 12/27/2002 4:15 pm 3453.305 in reply to
3453.304
|
| |
I've only ridden in Mexico and Guatemala but have
friends who've ridden throughout Central America and parts of South
America on a GS (in one case 2-up!) If you look on Horizons Unlimited
you can find stories of others who've done it. That being said, if I
were doing the trip that you guys are thinking about, I'd look for a
smaller, lighter bike. No matter what route is chosen you will be in
mud, gravel and sand for long stretches. There are those who are skilled
in riding a GS in those conditions but I'm not one of them. Also, to
ride a GS in those conditions, you'd need the knobby tires which don't
last. So you'd have the added complication of finding suitable tires a
number of times along the way. I get 10-14k miles out of Dunlop Trailmax
tires. That kind of mileage would get you from Mx almost to the end
depending on route (length and conditions).
KTM will be selling their new, 2-cyl. Adventure soon. It weighs 100 lbs
less than a GS, has 12" of ground clearance, and 10" of suspension
travel. I'd certainly look at that bike as a possibility. I know I
wouldn't be happy on a thumper like a KLR or the KTM single for a trip
like the one planned.
I just returned from a 1 month r/t San Diego-Guatemala on my GS. I can't
think of a better bike for the trip I took. But the roads and conditions
in MX are a lot better than those often found much farther south. In
Guatemala there were a couple of places I wanted to go but didn't out of
caution because of road conditions - dirt, rocks, very, very steep, etc. |
| |
|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 12/27/2002 5:01 pm 3453.306
in reply to 3453.305 |
| |
right on, dan. thanks for the thoughts. i've heard very
little about the new ktm adventure. looks like a real good mount. like
you, i don't think i'd like a thumper, but mainly because it would look
like i'm riding down the road with a thimble up my bum.
either way, i'm not looking for a new mount just yet. i think i can hold
off until end of 2004 to start looking for the right mount for the
entire trip. the ktm may just be the ticket by that time. |
| |
|
| From: Bill Wight (wight6) 12/27/2002 10:36 pm 3453.310
in reply to 3453.306 |
| |
You may want to consider the abandon factor. It would be
a lot easier for me to abandon a $4,000 KLR than a $15,000 Beamer. Were
I mixed up in this I would want to be able to walk away from the bike
and fly home. |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 12/29/2002 4:36 am 3453.330 in reply to
3453.325 |
| |
I'm aiming to make this a trip that is do-able with
determination and any rough-road capable bike. That means that those who
chose to take an R1150RT *could* do it, but they will have to work
harder and maybe skip some optional diversions.
I would like to have a ride where my V-Strom is the least capable bike
based on expected roads, but that is unreasonable. I can't expect to use
my limitations as a threshold for others.
If the vast majority of the participants want to use KLR's and take
advantage of their capabilities, then I'm either gonna buy a KLR or I'm
gonna stick to the roads I can handle and meet them where I can. Either
way, I'm goning to enjoy the ride and be there at both ends....
And I do thing the V-Strom will be able to handle the roads Ive
suggested in the posts I put forward - or I'll find a way! |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 12/29/2002 3:21 pm 3453.333 in reply to
3453.332 |
| |
I already have:
- Heated grips
- Center stand
- Stock luggage (which I won't use for the big trip)
- Throttlemeister
I will probably do the following this year:
- Better windshield (taller and wider, likely Cee Bailey)
- Change to better tires (comes with Bridgestone TrailWings, I will
likely go to Metzelers if I can get them cheap enough)
- Seat is good, but I'll likely get a better one
- More heated clothing
- Engine guards
Things you don't need to change:
- Forward lights: the stock headlights are absolutely phenomenal. I
would only add lights to insure against burnout if required.
- Suspension travel - at 6 inches both front and rear, it's adequate.
Things I will buy before 2006:
- Luggage from Jesse or Happy Trails (I like the stock gear, but it's
not durable enough)
- Improved rear-facing lighting (I have lights in the OEM trunk I'll
need to duplicate for the new luggage)
- A fuel cell (range is good, but I want more flexibility)
- When available, stronger suspension components
- When available, a proper engine skid plate (I may fabricate this
myself if not available) and improved protection for oil and water rads.
- Maybe a more powerful alt/gen -- the stock one produces 350 watts
(nominal max at 5000 rpm), and the bike's stock demand totals a peak of
about 200 watts plus my heated grips (abt 20-25 watts) and the load of
the engine itself and the rad fan (estimate at 25-35 watts). If need be,
I have a local shop that can rebuild mine to higher output - I'd like a
buffer of 20% over the projected peak load including any aux lights and
heated clothing.
I am not that concerned by the cast wheels versus spokes, and I will
have to trade off the matter of how difficult it may be to pick up. I am
increasingly convinced that this bike and the BMW 11xx GS won't be that
big a problem, and with their increased carrying capacity and pavement
eating ability they will shine for much of the run.
I'm not a really big guy (6 ft even, 200 lbs), but I found the KLR and
the BMW F650 just didn't feel as comfortable to me. A ride on the KLR
made me think that (at least for now) my V-Strom will work better for
me.
One note - I intend to change tires in Panama, so that I'll have a fresh
set of knobs to deal with the worst of their roads (Ecuador, Peru,
Bolivia, etc). If the tires have worn a bit by the time we reach
Argentina, not a big problem then. |
| |
|
| From: Dtop1 12/29/2002 8:49 pm 3453.337 in reply to
3453.333 |
| |
spoked vs cast wheels. Last month in Mexico I hit a huge
pothole at 75+ and bent the front rim on my 1150GS - this on a 4 lane,
toll road! The tire didn't deflate and I didn't go down. My buddy and I
borrowed a sledge hammer, beat on the rim to straighten the flanges then
retightened the spokes. The wheel was out of round at the impact point
by close to 1/4". I rode the bike 4000+ miles through Guatemala and back
to the US w/o further problems. I'm convinced that with an alloy wheel
the trip would have been over for me.
If you do the SA trip in 2006, I'd seriously think about spoked wheels. |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 12/29/2002 11:06 pm 3453.339 in reply
to 3453.337 |
| |
If spoked wheels become available, I'll certainly
consider them - I just won't necessarily let the lack of them stop me
from using the V-Strom. |
| |
|
| From: Dtop1 3/23/2003 12:18 am 3453.415 in reply to
3453.409 |
| |
The problems with the the KTMs (640 + 950?)are the seat
height and the seat itself. A custom seat would be doable but ride
height is a problem. My buddy has a KTM 640 Adventure and I, even with a
34" inseam, have a hard time reaching the ground. I've seen the specs on
the twin and the seat height is essentially the same as the single.
Another problem with the KTM is availability of parts. Even here in the
US parts can take months to get. South of the border, forget about it.
The Horizons Unlimited web site has had blogs of riders doing the trip
on KTMs and repairs were a problem. Most said they would choose another
bike if they had to do it over again. |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 4/22/2003 5:31 pm 3453.437 in reply to
3453.435 |
| |
We have been talking about the KTM line, as Jason
mentioned in his reply. I think the 950 is a strong contender, depending
on how it looks in its final version.
I'm not sure just how rough the roads will be - it's a challenge I've
been facing to dig out information on the actual road conditions, and
feed that back to everyone else. |
| |
|
| From: caminolargo 4/22/2003 6:27 pm 3453.439 in reply to
3453.437 |
| |
At 438 pounds, the 950's no lightweight, but then it has
98 hp and what does the Beamer weigh anyhow? Go to www.ktmusa.com to see
what looks like the final version. I've shot my LC4 640 through some of
the twistiest desert so Cal and Mexico have to offer, crashed it, abused
it, crashed it some more, and it keeps ticking. It'll do 100 mph easy,
but the seat takes some getting used to, especially for you Electraglide
and Wing riders. No stock bike will be perfect for this trip. The best
bike will be the most versatile one. A bike with long suspension travel
would be preferable, for obvious reasons. I suggest for those of you
planning on this trip who have never trail ridden before, spend some
time with the bike of your choice in some difficult terrain before the
trip. Learn to adjust suspension as needed on the road or on the trail.
I don't imagine that picking up a 400+ pound bike out of a mosquito and
snake ridden mudhole because the suspension was to stiff or too slack is
on anyone's "to do" list while on this trip. Also, the more riders that
ride the same bike, the better, so that spares can be interchanged from
rider to rider. Some more thoughts for those of you still with me:
1)Tires on dirt bike sized wheels are much easier to repair on the
road/trail that street bike sized. The wheels themselves are also less
prone to damage. A tube can be changed in a matter of minutes whereas a
tubeless tire requires some expert attention. 2)There are some really
cool gadgets that can be fitted to the adventure type bikes these days
such as GPS mounts available from Touratek and RAM. 3) There are half
the parts to break on a single cylinder engine that a twin, half the
valves to adjust, and less weight. 4) When choosing an engine, torque
counts for a lot when riding in places such as you are attempting. 5) I
hope you all have good senses of humor, because as one lister suggested,
you will all be hating each other half way through the trip. However you
will all have an inseperable bond when finished, just be sure that bond
isn't the shackles in some revolutionary camp in Columbia ;) Looking
more tempting by the minute, |
| |
|
| From: AL2000 (1343) 5/29/2003 8:49 pm 3453.489 in reply
to 3453.488 |
| |
I think I have found the perfect bike for this ride.
Here is a note I received. I am trying to get Hans to visit our web
site.
"The trip to Ushuaia & La Pataia (yes, all the way on the 2001 GL18100)
went over paved roads, some excellent, some good some poor, some
deplorable, but only 150 miles over gravel. The gravel roads were down
on the island of Tierra del Fuego (Land of Fire?). Some reasonable
smooth, some wash-board, some with banks of loose gravel which caused a
problem to get out of the way of on-coming traffic (that raised clouds
of dust). Another problem: very strong westerly winds that made you lean
against it as if going around a curve. A Gold Wing. or any other tourer
or cruiser, will have much trouble making it to Ushuaia (and back). One
Caution, tho: Stay away from the unpaved portion of the infamous Route
40 that has gravel the size of golf and tennis balls. It runs north to
south the length of Argentina. I have not tried it, but was told by a
Pancho Villa MC tour guide that 15 of his 17-strong group crashed on hwy
40 (all on suitable BMWs)." |
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|
| From: AlbinoRhino (OrionRider) 5/30/2003 5:43 pm
3453.495 in reply to 3453.494 |
| |
May I recommend some Jesse bags,
http://www.jesseluggage.com/
, and a duffle that will straddle the backseat/bags, and perhaps a tank
bag? Check
http://www.helen2wheels.com/about/ |
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|
| From: bigtexrider 6/3/2003 3:56 pm 3453.510 in reply to
3453.509 |
| |
I have been reading a lot about the KLR650 as the bike
of choice. From all I can gather in reading about folks that have done
the trip, KLRs seem to be a minority. Personally I like the Honda 650L.
It's air cooled (no liquids), similar weight as the KLR, and Honda has
an extensive dealer (parts) network in Central and South America, great
suspension (11"), after market gas tank is 7 gallons (for not much $$),
blah, blah, blah. My good friend that owns a Honda shop shipped a bunch
of bikes to the Columbian and Argentine Army some years ago (US
Government sponsored program). They wanted Hondas for reliability and
ease of getting parts. Just a view point. But what works here may not
work further south. |
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|
| From: caminolargo 6/16/2003 12:53 pm 3453.525 in reply
to 3453.510 |
| |
As I have some experience and lots of friends with dual
sports, I'll say a few words here, again. First, stay away from Susuki
unless you actually like having tranny problems. Suzuki and Kawi
recently joined forces, so I'm scared of both now. The KLR is simply a
pig, but cheap. Do you really want a cheap bike for this trip? You
cannot beat Honda for bang for the buck and reliability. My friend
specifically bought a Honda XR 650R to race in Baja because they are so
reliable and parts are inexpensive and readily available. The down side
of Honda is that it will require some accessorization in the way of
storage and oversized tanks. If you get an XR 650 R, be prepared to have
to dual sport it too (DOT lights, turn signals, tires, etc). The BMW
will definitely get you there in comfort and style, but a bit pricey and
heavy. It's probably the choice for the two up crowd over the KTM
Adventure, which comes in cheaper than the BMW. It's not as comfortable,
but it's powerful, reliable and turn key and off-road ready for long
distances. |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) 6/22/2003 2:31 pm 3453.555 in reply
to 3453.554 |
| |
The fellow I was talking to from Argentina also
mentioned that if we decide to go to one bike we should strongly
consider the KLR as parts are more readily available. |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) 6/27/2003 11:20 am 3453.570 in reply
to 3453.565 |
| |
Once we have the route decided upon, we should start
considering options for a bike. My generally feeling is that we make a
list of the top 4 or 5 bikes and then start contacting manufactures
regarding a group buy or sponsorship. I also believe that we need to
allow those that don't want that particular ride to ride the bike of
their choice. |
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|
| From: Wheeldog 11/30/2002 11:54 pm 3453.7 in reply to
3453.6 |
| |
Pay????? How much you figure this trip is gonna cost?
|
| |
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| From:
Dave Hinks (daveh141) 12/1/2002 2:11 am 3453.18 in reply to
3453.15 |
| |
The main problem won't be the roads or the weather but
the political and social unrest in most of the countries you need to
pass through. A biker going from California to the tip of South America
was kidnapped late last year in Columbia. You can check out his story at
http://www.strikingviking.net/ . He was
lucky, he was released 5 week later. Kidnapping are a way of life down
south. They see a group of MTFers riding down the road they think they
hit the gravy train. Heck, they don't know we are broke, spent all our
money on bikes and nobody will pay a dime in ransom. |
| |
|
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/1/2002 10:55 am
3453.29 in reply to 3453.1 |
| |
<<This trip will go from Prudhoe Bay, Alaska to Puerto
Espanol, Argentina.>>
Why stop short? If you are going that far south, might as well get down
to Ushuaia in Tierra del Fuego (didn't find Puerto Espanol on the map).
You might regret not going all the way.
My friend did that trip and more back in 1997. You might want to get his
book, "8 Around the Americas on a Motorcycle", available from Whitehorse
Press at
http://www.whitehorsepress.com He describes the border hassles
and more, as well as tips to get around them.
Don't let anything discourage you, but be prepared. This ain't riding on
the some US Interstate.
Also check out the Horizons Unlimited web site at
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com |
| |
| From:
Jules (GirlOnAGlide) 12/1/2002 12:24 pm 3453.32 in
reply to 3453.1 |
| |
Read the book: Odyssey to Ushuaia.
http://www.whitehorsepress.com/ |
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|
| From: AlbinoRhino (OrionRider) 12/1/2002 12:36 pm
3453.35 in reply to 3453.29 |
| |
"Why stop short? If you are going that far south, might
as well get down to Ushuaia in Tierra del Fuego (didn't find Puerto
Espanol on the map). You might regret not going all the way."
Puerto Expanol is about 95 miles east (straight line), and a little
further south. I suspect that Ushuaia is on the route to Puerto Espanol. |
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| From: ITSecurity 12/1/2002 3:40 pm 3453.41 in reply to
3453.20 |
| |
German will be handy in Uruguay and Paraguay, where a
lot of post WW2 immigration occurred (remember "The Boys from Brazil"?). |
| |
|
| From:
RivettS 12/1/2002 10:39 pm 3453.64 in reply to 3453.1 |
| |
I can't say I'm in yet but I'm interested. My fear is
that by the time you guys make it to the Belizean border you'll be ready
to kill each other. Last Christmas I put together a trip with my van
were I put up a few signs saying "Trip to Mexico, Belize,
Guatemala...you pay share in gas". I got two people to go with me and my
brother but in the end we found out that we hated each other :(
So, what I am saying is, you guys better spend a few long trips together
before hand so you can separate into your own smaller groups. |
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|
| From: ITSecurity 12/1/2002 11:56 pm 3453.66 in reply to
3453.64 |
| |
We'll likely have to set some ground rules about
limiting bike to bike communications, etc. No doubt with this planning
horizon we're all gonna have to discuss preferred riding speeds,
personal limits, etc. well in advance...
I know I don't ride as fast as some other members of my local club, so
we may want to set daily objectives based on both what is possible and
what the participants collectively see as reasonable.
Then again, that gives us all something to talk about for the next few
years! |
| |
|
| From: Joe (The Iceman) (May125) 12/2/2002 3:55 am
3453.69 in reply to 3453.64 |
| |
I think you're dead right on this. Even if people get
along, 21 people will have 7 times more breakdowns, accidents,
bellyaches, etc. than 3 people. In a situation where it might be
unthinkable to leave someone behind I would rather worry about the other
2 than the other 20. I would be reluctant to go alone. One more bike
would be better. Three would seem to me to be about ideal, and four
would be getting top heavy. Facilities and opportunities would
reasonably be more available to smaller groups than large..
Not to say multiple small groups traveling hours or even days apart
wouldn't be a bad idea. If I do this I would carry a Global Star sat
phone with US embassy and home phone numbers programmed in. They lease
reasonably and work as easy as a cell phone |
| |
|
| From: AlbinoRhino (OrionRider) 12/2/2002 4:11 am 3453.70
in reply to 3453.66 |
| |
"We'll likely have to set some ground rules about
limiting bike to bike communications, etc."
The countries we travel through may restrict the radio frequencies we
can use. Something else to research... :) Realize that the freedoms we
take for granted aren't world-wide. |
| |
|
| From:
Bill Wight (wight6) 12/2/2002 7:37 pm 3453.86 in reply to
3453.61 |
| |
Hey guys. When it is summer here it is winter down
there. Maybe you should plan this for spring or fall to try and equalize
the weather situation. |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 12/3/2002 9:15 pm 3453.116 in reply to
3453.113 |
| |
I think we need to start discussing a couple things --
not deciding, just discussing!
- Benefits/penalties with different start times
- What to do about the Darien Gap
- Is this a pure speed run, or are people more interested in seeing
something on the way? (Hard to avoid given the route, but I can think of
some enriching detours)
- Do significant numbers of those expressing interest have something
particular in mind? For example, have you always wanted to ride a reed
boat on Lake Titicaca, or cross the Amazon, or...
- Is it important to people to be purist (i.e., avoid airlift, long
ferries, etc) if roads are possible, no matter how dangerous or
difficult?
Thoughts, everyone?
I now have good maps from the best local source... |
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|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 12/3/2002 9:41 pm 3453.117
in reply to 3453.116 |
| |
this is not an endurance run for me - expect for maybe
prudhoe to the us/mexico border. :) my intention is to experience as
much as possible either on the way down or the ride back. i'm not doing
it for a certificate or anything of the sort. i'd like to make the ride
for the physical, mental and mechanical challenge and to experience
everything i can possibly squeeze into the timeframe allotted.
basically, i want to suck the marrow out of this trip. |
| |
|
| From: chfnelson 12/3/2002 10:00 pm 3453.118 in reply to
3453.1 |
| |
MTF Odyssey to Ushuaia
My Route Proposals
Dave Nelson (chfnelson)
Depart Prudhoe Bay.
Dalton Hwy from Prudhoe Bay to Anchorage.
Alaska Hwy. to Dawson Creek, BC.
British Columbia 97 to BC 99, to Vancouver and the US Border.
I-5 border to border.
I-8 from I-5 to I-10, in Arizona.
I-10 to Nogales. Exit US, enter Mexico.
Mexico 15 (toll road) through Mazatlan to Tepic.
Mexico 200 to Puerta Vallarta, Acapulco, Tapichula, to Guatemalan
border.
Guat. 2 (Pacific Coast Hwy.) to border, then Acajutla, El Salvador
(Possible side trip to Guatemala City).
Local road to CA1 (Pan Am Hwy).
CA 1 to San Salvador, then to Santa Rosa, and Honduran border.
Alternate: CA 2 across El Salvador to Sirama and CA 1. (By-pass San
Salvador).
Pan Am Hwy (Honduras 1, Nicaragua 1) to Managua.
Nic. 2 to Costa Rica.
Costa Rica 1 (Pan Am Hwy) to San Jose.
CR 2 (Pan Am Hwy) to Panama border.
Panama 1 (Pan Am Hwy) to Panama City.
Darien Gap. Probably find a coastal steamer to carry bikes to Colombia.
South America
Assume an unopposed landing at Buenaventura (Cali).
Colombia 72 to Colombia 11.
South on 11 to Ecuador.
Ecuador 35 to Quito, then Peruvian border.
Peru 1 to Lima, then Chilean border.
Chile 5 to Santiago.
Backtrack on Chile 5 to Chile Hwy 60.
Hwy 60 over Andes Mtns., to Mendoza, Argentina. (Neat tunnel through top
of mtn.)
Argentina 7 and 8 to Buenos Aires. Major hwy., 840 miles.
Arg. Hwy 3 to to Chilean border at Rio Gallegos
Chile 259 to Argentine border
Arg. 3 to Rio Grande, and Ushuaia.
Alternate Route 1
Peru 1 from Lima to Peru 30, at Vitor.
Peru 30 to Peru 3 at Puno (61 mi.) (Lake Titicaca shore)
Peru 3 to Copacabana, and Bolivian border.
Bolivian Hwy to La Paz, Bolivia
Bolivia Hwy 6 to Paraguayan border (includes approx. 104 miles of
‘graded earth’ to border)
Paraguay 9—approx. 144 miles of gravel to Estiguarribia.
Para. 9 to Asuncion (312 miles surfaced hwy)
Cross border to Argentina.
Argentina 11 to Rosario, pick up Hwy 9.
Hwy 9 to Buenos Aires, pick up Argentine 3 (to end of trip)
Alternate Route 2
At Mendoza, Argentina, take AR 143 to San Isabel
AR 151 to AR 22 at Neuquen
AR 22 to AR 250, to AR 251
AR 251 to San Antonio Oeste, pick up AR 3 to end of trip.
Alternate Route 3
At Mendoza, AR 143 to San Rafael
AR 144 to AR 40
AR 40 to AR 3 at Rio Gallegos (border) (this route includes gravel and
‘other surfaces’ for long stretches)
Alternate Route 4 (for those with more cojones than I have)
Unopposed landing at Cali
Colombia Hwy 72 to Bogota
CO 71 to Venezuelan border
Venezuela 1 to Caracas
VA 9 to Barcelona
VA 16 to Ciudad Bolivar
VA 19 to Hw1, to Upata
VA 10 to Santa Elena (border) (approx 150 mi. of gravel)
Enter Brazil
Brazil 174 to Caracarai (200 miles of gravel)
Mesh with BR 210 for approx. 75 mi. surfaced road.
BR 174 to Manaus. (300 miles of gravel) (no towns indicated on my map)
(ferry across river at Manaus)
BR 319 to Humaita (300-350 mi. surfaced), Puerta Velho
BR 364 to Cuiaba (surfaced)
BR 70 to Brasilia
BR 40 to Rio De Janeiro
BR 116 to San Paulo, Curitiba, Porto Alegre
Uruguayan border
Uruguayan hwy to UR 8.
UR 8 to Montevideo,
UR 1 to Colonia, ferry to Argentina.
Argentina Hwy 3 to end of route.
Routes are based on AAA map of Central and South America. There are lots
of different routes, but the primary route uses almost all paved roads.
Once in the Andes, many roads are gravel and 'other surfaces' which may
not be passable at all times.
Alternate routes include gravel and earth surfaced roads. |
| From: chfnelson 12/3/2002 10:00 pm 3453.118 in reply to
3453.1 |
| |
MTF Odyssey to Ushuaia
My Route Proposals
Dave Nelson (chfnelson)
Depart Prudhoe Bay.
Dalton Hwy from Prudhoe Bay to Anchorage.
Alaska Hwy. to Dawson Creek, BC.
British Columbia 97 to BC 99, to Vancouver and the US Border.
I-5 border to border.
I-8 from I-5 to I-10, in Arizona.
I-10 to Nogales. Exit US, enter Mexico.
Mexico 15 (toll road) through Mazatlan to Tepic.
Mexico 200 to Puerta Vallarta, Acapulco, Tapichula, to Guatemalan
border.
Guat. 2 (Pacific Coast Hwy.) to border, then Acajutla, El Salvador
(Possible side trip to Guatemala City).
Local road to CA1 (Pan Am Hwy).
CA 1 to San Salvador, then to Santa Rosa, and Honduran border.
Alternate: CA 2 across El Salvador to Sirama and CA 1. (By-pass San
Salvador).
Pan Am Hwy (Honduras 1, Nicaragua 1) to Managua.
Nic. 2 to Costa Rica.
Costa Rica 1 (Pan Am Hwy) to San Jose.
CR 2 (Pan Am Hwy) to Panama border.
Panama 1 (Pan Am Hwy) to Panama City.
Darien Gap. Probably find a coastal steamer to carry bikes to Colombia.
South America
Assume an unopposed landing at Buenaventura (Cali).
Colombia 72 to Colombia 11.
South on 11 to Ecuador.
Ecuador 35 to Quito, then Peruvian border.
Peru 1 to Lima, then Chilean border.
Chile 5 to Santiago.
Backtrack on Chile 5 to Chile Hwy 60.
Hwy 60 over Andes Mtns., to Mendoza, Argentina. (Neat tunnel through top
of mtn.)
Argentina 7 and 8 to Buenos Aires. Major hwy., 840 miles.
Arg. Hwy 3 to to Chilean border at Rio Gallegos
Chile 259 to Argentine border
Arg. 3 to Rio Grande, and Ushuaia.
Alternate Route 1
Peru 1 from Lima to Peru 30, at Vitor.
Peru 30 to Peru 3 at Puno (61 mi.) (Lake Titicaca shore)
Peru 3 to Copacabana, and Bolivian border.
Bolivian Hwy to La Paz, Bolivia
Bolivia Hwy 6 to Paraguayan border (includes approx. 104 miles of
‘graded earth’ to border)
Paraguay 9—approx. 144 miles of gravel to Estiguarribia.
Para. 9 to Asuncion (312 miles surfaced hwy)
Cross border to Argentina.
Argentina 11 to Rosario, pick up Hwy 9.
Hwy 9 to Buenos Aires, pick up Argentine 3 (to end of trip)
Alternate Route 2
At Mendoza, Argentina, take AR 143 to San Isabel
AR 151 to AR 22 at Neuquen
AR 22 to AR 250, to AR 251
AR 251 to San Antonio Oeste, pick up AR 3 to end of trip.
Alternate Route 3
At Mendoza, AR 143 to San Rafael
AR 144 to AR 40
AR 40 to AR 3 at Rio Gallegos (border) (this route includes gravel and
‘other surfaces’ for long stretches)
Alternate Route 4 (for those with more cojones than I have)
Unopposed landing at Cali
Colombia Hwy 72 to Bogota
CO 71 to Venezuelan border
Venezuela 1 to Caracas
VA 9 to Barcelona
VA 16 to Ciudad Bolivar
VA 19 to Hw1, to Upata
VA 10 to Santa Elena (border) (approx 150 mi. of gravel)
Enter Brazil
Brazil 174 to Caracarai (200 miles of gravel)
Mesh with BR 210 for approx. 75 mi. surfaced road.
BR 174 to Manaus. (300 miles of gravel) (no towns indicated on my map)
(ferry across river at Manaus)
BR 319 to Humaita (300-350 mi. surfaced), Puerta Velho
BR 364 to Cuiaba (surfaced)
BR 70 to Brasilia
BR 40 to Rio De Janeiro
BR 116 to San Paulo, Curitiba, Porto Alegre
Uruguayan border
Uruguayan hwy to UR 8.
UR 8 to Montevideo,
UR 1 to Colonia, ferry to Argentina.
Argentina Hwy 3 to end of route.
Routes are based on AAA map of Central and South America. There are lots
of different routes, but the primary route uses almost all paved roads.
Once in the Andes, many roads are gravel and 'other surfaces' which may
not be passable at all times.
Alternate routes include gravel and earth surfaced roads. |
| |
|
| From: RalphWiens 12/4/2002 2:36 am 3453.121 in reply to
3453.116 |
| |
Where did you get your maps?
-"What to do about the Darien Gap"
I've heard that the best thing to do is to ship your bike from Panama
Canal and bypass Columbia.
- "Is this a pure speed run, or are people more interested in seeing
something on the way? (Hard to avoid given the route, but I can think of
some enriching detours)"
I Dont have time constraints so I'm looking for a sigtseeing trip as
much as the group would allow.
- "- Is it important to people to be purist (i.e., avoid airlift, long
ferries, etc) if roads are possible, no matter how dangerous or
difficult?"
Safety is more important to me. |
| |
|
| From: RalphWiens 12/4/2002 2:54 am 3453.122 in reply to
3453.6 |
| |
I like the idea of paying for an escort. Ideally a
military person would be best. From my experience in 3rd world nations
(while in the military) the military has higher jurisdiction over the
locals so would help us stay out of trouble.
I'm not sure though how an escort would be able to stay up with us
unless we stay on major arteries. |
| |
|
| From: RalphWiens 12/4/2002 3:57 am 3453.124 in reply to
3453.123 |
| |
Here is a link from transporting our bike from Panama to
? The price range was US $250 to $1200 with $500 being the average per
bike plus another $150-$200 per person. The planes probably can't take
too many bikes at a time, so may have to ship over several days or
airlines. Basically we contact one of the local numbers at this sight
and they arrange the transportation.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tripplan/transport/shipping-south_america.php#CartagenaToPanama |
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|
From: AL2000 (1343) 12/4/2002 6:59 am 3453.126 in reply to 3453.121 |
| |
Here is a response from Ron Ayres with regard to a
message I sent to him about our trip. It looks like Ushuaia, Argentina
is the Southern most point so our offical Destination will be Ushuaia
instead of Puerto Espaneol. I will comment further on Ron's message
later in the day.
You guys do sound nuts. And I love it !!First of all, yes, feel free
to write to me, by all means. And if you would like to be kept informed
about what we're doing with Ayres Adventures, I'd be happy to add you to
my email list. I send an update out about once every six weeks or so.
I'm in Ushuaia, Argentina now with Dan Cohen, a tour leader who is
helping me scout out and set up some trips to Patagonia and Tierra del
Fuego, or "Tierra del Moto" as Dan has dubbed it. Some time in the next
week or so, we'll be publishing a report on the first phase of our
12,000 swing through Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, Peru, Chile and
Uruguay.
As for your cross-continental tour in 2006, I'm interested in what
you're doing, but 2006 is a bit far out for me to make any commitments.
I'm not sure what sort of help you would be looking for from me. Keep me
posted on it, though.
I can give you something else to think about as a possibility. I would
be happy to set up a group "Latin America 50CC Ride" like the ride that
Mike Kneebone and I did earlier this year, in which we rode from the
Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific by leaving from Tramandi (near Porto
Alegre, Brazil) to Vina del Mar in Chile. The BMW MOA published an
article about the ride in the June and July 2002 issue of their
magazine. I've also got the story posted on the web site.
We could provide the motorcycles for such a ride. The 50CC could be done
in one direction and we could arrange it so the guys could "smell the
roses" on the return trip and visit some incredible South American
attractions. So long as your group was arranging this as a group trip,
we could provide an attractive discount vs. our normal pricing.
Here's something even more far-out. The northernmost city is Argentina,
a small city on the border between Argentina and Bolivia. The
southernmost city in the world is Ushuaia, Argentina (from where I'm
writing this email). The distance is a little more than 5,000
kilometers. Dan and I have visited both locations within about the last
month and I don't know how many, if any, other riders have done it in
less time, although we weren't trying to set any records. How about a
"north to south" or "south to north Argentina Adventure" that permits a
group to visit both places, while taking in some interesting places in
Chile, Brazil, etc. before or after?
The point is, if your group is really into big miles and wants to do
something outside the good old USA (like in Latin America) I can help.
You may know that we're the official tour company for the Iron Butt
Association (see http://www.ronayres.com/IBAtours.htm) and I believe
you'll see some additional Iron Butt related stuff coming soon. Our
first "Iron Butt Members Only" South American trip begins January 4 in
Brazil and we've got a few slots left, if you're interested. You would
need a visa for Brazil, but that can be obtained on an expedited basis
in about 5 days or so.
I've copied some of our tour leaders, including Brazilians Decio and
Alvaro, who are Iron Butt members and who led me and Mike Kneebone on
our 50CC.
Thanks for the email, and let me know if you're interested in working
something out. And remember, we don't do tours - we do Adventures ! |
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|
From: jdpfms 12/4/2002 10:43 am
3453.128 in reply to 3453.118 |
| |
Wow, that's a bunch of work Dave. Thanks for the info.
As for Columbia, I'm not one to live in fear as we travel
internationally quite a bit, but I don't want to take irrational
unnecessary chances either. As for Darien Gap, I'm not really wanting to
try that stretch of "road" even with a humvee much less any motorcycle
so I'd also opt for a detour of that area. I also don't much like being
kidnapped or fighting our way through Columbia either. I have a nephew
who lives in Costa Rica and works in Panama as well. He is into
financial markets etc. but he might have some contacts that could help a
group like us with service and transport of bikes if need be around
Darien Gap and or Columbia. |
| |
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| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 12/4/2002 11:35 am 3453.131
in reply to 3453.129 |
| |
the general thought is to equip a bike with good
street/off-road capabilities that isn't too heavy, gets good gas
mileage, easy to work on, old yet reliable technology...
i'd like to get some idea of how much 'peso-nality' is going to be
required to complete this trip. i'm mainly concerned about the unknowns
like bribes and such.
i don't think i'll fly back home. i'd like to experience rio, sao paulo
and a few other places. it would be a shame to get to south america and
not visit a few places like that. |
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|
From: RalphWiens 12/4/2002 12:02 pm 3453.134 in reply to
3453.131
|
| |
I would like to see other sights also once we complete
the initial trip, like up through Rio, etc, etc. Maybe sell the bike
once I'm done in South America, maybe ship it back. I'm not sure, but I
could decide on that later.
In reference to corruption: I spent 10 yrs in the Philipines (US Air
Force), and have a lot of experience as far as bribes go (also very
corrupt country), generally bribes are not very much, maybe $5-$10
dollars for help. Now if you get in serious trouble that number will go
up. Basically don't think of the bribing as something you shouldn't do
but just a way of life in third would countries. The government
employees or military get paid very little, and this just supplements
their income. It works for you and against you. It helps you bypass red
tape quicker, allows you to get out of predicaments with the law easier
i.e. getting traffic citation and have to wait 7 days for court, versus
what would it take to solve this now attitude. Just understand that you
will have to pay small bribes along the way for no reason other than the
officer needed money for lunch. Generally money to smooth the wheels is
accepted at all levels of government employees (city, province, etc).
I'm not saying this is a good thing, just that its no big deal. |
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|
| From: ITSecurity 12/4/2002 12:25 pm 3453.138 in reply to
3453.135 |
| |
AAA has affiliates in Canada, Mexico, most of Central
America, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay,
Peru, Uruguay and Venezuela. Make sure your "Plus" coverage for
motorcycles is paid up |
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|
| From: ITSecurity 12/4/2002 12:42 pm 3453.140 in reply to
3453.121 |
| |
Map sources:
AAA -- If you're a member, get their consolidated map for the Caribbean,
Central and South America. It's surprisingly good re the major routes.
Bar code identifier 10310201, no other publication info, I got the
2001-2002 edition. Useful for overview planning even if you get more
detailed maps -- and free to members!
International Travel Maps -- this Vancouver-based firm (ITMB Publishing
Ltd) produces some pretty good maps that are marketed all over the
world. I got their maps for Central America (scale 1:1,100,000)
north-west South America (scale 1:4,000,000 -- includes coverage as far
over as Guyana, including the Manaus route) and southern South America
(scale 1:2,800,000). These cost about $10 US each.
There are other well-regarded maps, but the ITMB ones are often referred
to even on European and Australian websites.
Some ideas for people to consider for "adjusting" the route...
* Mayan and Incan ruin sites (I'd strongly recommend a diversion through
Honduras with a stop at Copan!)
* A rest break on Costa Rica's Pacific coast (many highly regarded
resorts -- some very cheap)
* A side trip from Panama City to Colon to let us dip our bikes in the
Atlantic and Pacific on the same day! (may be a good way of waiting for
transport to SA if we are using boat or air)
* Surf fishing in Peru (I'm told it's good)
* Lake Titicaca
* The big salt flats (Unuiya I think?)
* For architecture fans, Brasilia (the whole city is a modern
architecture display) and the Opera House in Manaus (it rivals the best
in Europe)
Start reading and weighing in with ideas, everyone! |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 12/4/2002 6:21 pm 3453.145 in reply to
3453.144 |
| |
I worked out an estimate of 40 days minimum time,
based on average of 500 km a day for total distance of 20,000 km. The
distance will likely be longer, and while we may make 1600 km on a few
days, I expect any number that will be 100 km (or a rest/repair day).
My working estimate, not counting backtracking time to get to return
departure point, is 50-60 days. |
| |
|
| From: chfnelson 12/5/2002 12:14 am 3453.147 in reply to
3453.128 |
| |
When I did the routing, I looked first for the most
direct route with the best roads. After that, I started looking at the
most attractive alternates. Then the cojone buster.
Since Alan has contacted Ron Ayers, I am positive that many more routes
will be forthcoming. As for myself, I think I would rather go down the
Pacific Coast and make a side trip to Bolivia. After Santiago, Chile,
that tunnel through the Andes at around 18,000 ft might be fun.
On the return trip, I would want to go up the Atlantic Coast to visit
Buenos Aires, Montevideo, Sao Paulo, Brasilia, and Rio de Janiero.
The Darien Gap sounds like it can be outflanked, and we can now tap into
major reservoirs of information as to how to do it. Many people are
terrified of Colombia. I think that may be overblown if we have
experienced help available. We are looking at traveling major highways,
not back roads.
The route to be traveled will make a big difference in the type of bike
selected. Many have suggested the Kaw KLR650, and others the BMW.
Apparently, Honda and Suzuki do not make similar models (dual sport), or
at least promote them the same way. If the vast majority of the riding
is on paved roads, there may be no reason to get one of these. I think
that advice from those who have 'been there, done that' will be
important in ride selection. |
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|
| From: RalphWiens 12/5/2002 3:59 am 3453.150 in reply to
3453.149 |
| |
I agree on roughly how much this trip will cost. I was
figuring between $16k-20K including the bike, not counting any loss
revenue being away from work. For me though, I think it will be well
worth it. I do want to take my time though, so i think that 6 weeks
would be pushing but 60 days should be ok unless there are some major
delays |
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|
| From: 99REDWINGSE (RDICKERSON2) 12/5/2002 4:19 am
3453.151 in reply to 3453.150 |
| |
I think those money amounts to fairly accurate for an
estimate. The time, thing, needs a lot of consideration.
I believe those participating will need a fairly open, time table, and
an open wallet... entiendo... si'..
But proper planning prevents a poor performance..
I'll sure look harder at it each year, and weigh the options.
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr
This is a great page for all your translation stuff just bring a laptop
with you, and search... and they will think you are really fluent and
smart..It works great....
Je voudrais visiter le Canada un certain jour et monter avec Tony.
<I would like to visit Canada some day and ride with Tony.> |
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|
| From: ITSecurity 12/6/2002 5:31 pm 3453.177 in reply to
3453.175 |
| |
I have found
www.fitac.org -- the website for FITAC, the umbrella
organization of auto clubs across the Americas. Since I have a
motorcycle-coverage membership in an affiliated club (Alberta Motor
Association, a CAA club) I have started contacting each of the
affiliates in Central and South America to see how we can get better
info on road conditions to assist in planning. I'll post the results as
I get them -- it should save multiple contacts and aggravation |
| |
|
| From:
Dtop1 12/7/2002 1:05 pm 3453.182 in reply to 3453.1 |
| |
A long distance rider friend of mine recommended I chime
in on this discussion. I ride an 1150GS Beemer and just returned a week
ago from a 6700 mile r/t ride to Guatemala with a buddy. I'm fluent in
Spanish and have traveled in other Latin American countries so I might
be a resource for your trip planning. It's obvious from reading some of
the threads that many of the people who have expressed an interest have
a highly exaggerated idea of the dangers, problems, etc. of a trip like
this. Riders make the trip all the time in both directions. I recently
hosted 4 Columbians who rode beemers (on one a couple)from Panama to
Alaska w/o problems (there is no highway between Panama & Columbia -
it's called the Darien Gap so bikes have to be shipped.) Check out the
Horizons Unlimited website for trip report from riders doing the trip. |
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|
| From: ITSecurity 12/7/2002 9:42 pm 3453.189 in reply to
3453.182 |
| |
I appreciate the perspective.
I think I'd be comfortable just about anywhere except Columbia and the
Columbia-Venezuela frontier -- there have been an inordinate number of
Canadians held hostage in those areasI've traveled back country in
Honduras, and never felt any reason to be more cautious than I was in
rough areas (or areas I didn't know) in St Louis or other US cities. In
fact, in Compton (LA) I felt more concerned :) |
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|
| From: Dtop1 12/7/2002 9:45 pm 3453.190 in reply to
3453.183 |
| |
One of the links in this thread was to the web site of
www.strikingviking.com
I just read his account of the part of his trip along the west coast of
Mx and into Guatemala. My riding buddy & I just finished the same trip
and I hardly recognized anything from his description of the dangers,
problems, attitudes of drivers, etc. I, for example, prefer riding in Mx
rather than the US. Once you learn the local, informal driving rules
you'll find Mexican bus and truck drivers to be very considerate of
riders, signaling when it is safe to pass, making room, etc. Over the
years I have ridden or driven through 30 Mexican states and have had
fewer problems than the same kind of trips taken in the US.
His description of crossing the border into Guatemala was far from ours.
It took about 45 minutes to process the two of us and our bikes through,
we paid not one penny extra, got receipts for everything, etc. I have
crossed the Guatemalan border at least ten times in vehicles and have
had a problem only once. |
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|
| From: Dtop1 12/7/2002 9:58 pm 3453.191 in reply to
3453.189 |
| |
I agree: on this trip the smart thing would be to ship
the bikes to Ecuador from Panama to avoid Colombia at all costs and
Venezuela because of the explosive political situation. |
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|
| From: Dtop1 12/9/2002 8:27 am 3453.217 in reply to
3453.216 |
| |
A suggestion - break the trip into segments and get
volunteers to research each segment then make recommendations. The
research would look at possible routes, times of the year, visa and
vehicle requirements, places where bikes can be serviced, local
resources, etc.
Segments might be:
Alaska to Mx border
Mexico & Central America
South America
Return trip - shipping options, etc.
My feeling is that, once you make it to the tip of SA, the majority
aren't going to be interested in returning by land. So shipping the
bikes should be considered.
Also figure 200-250 miles per day average once you are out of the US and
about $50/day for expenses. I know that many of the riders in this forum
are used to mega-miles every day but that will have to change once you
cross the border. The roads are generally slower and you don't travel at
night. Plus the low daily mileage takes into account lay days for
repairs or waiting for parts, border crossings, paperwork snags,
illness, accidents, etc.
The $50/day expenses includes gas, tolls, food, lodging (2 to a room),
border crossing fees, etc. but doesn't include bike repairs, tires,
shipping, etc. |
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|
| From: AlbinoRhino (OrionRider) 12/9/2002 6:47 pm
3453.233 in reply to 3453.227 |
| |
I'm going to budget 3 months for this trip. This is not
going to be a speed run for me. I mapped out some sample trip segments
that takes me from home to Fairbanks, to Deadhorse and back to
Fairbanks, some riding around Alaska and British Columbia, and then to
the Mexico / Guatemala border--a leisurely 32 days. That leaves me 60
days for Central and South America.
I suspect we will have different groups based on their time budget, etc |
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| From: RalphWiens 12/9/2002 8:32 pm 3453.237 in reply to
3453.233 |
| |
I'm with you as far as 3 months take your time and smell
the roses type of trip. I know others are looking to do it in 6 weeks or
so due to time off from work. So I think you're right on possibly
different groups, maybe starting different times in Alaska and meeting
up in Panama at the same time, then after shipping our bikes to the
other side of Columbia, regroup again. |
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|
From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/9/2002 9:47 pm
3453.244 in reply to 3453.241
|
| |
<<A good point about checking with the manufacturer
regarding dealer locations and support.>>
See if you can get GPS co-ordinates. Normally, finding your way around
is easy...in familiar surroundings...on home turf. Away from home, you
have to deal with the different driving practices of the natives, road
signs, etc. |
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|
From: ITSecurity 12/10/2002 1:43 pm 3453.261 in reply to
3453.253
|
| |
I'm thinking the best time is a late August departure.
While this would mean traveling through Central America during hurricane
season, I think that's a better choice than going through in full summer
(northern hemisphere).
The other issue is across the equator -- I think it makes sense to
arrive in the south hemisphere at the same time as spring. Tierra del
Fuego is VERY far south, and the winter storms around the Cape are
legendary. Also, spring (even early spring) will likely be a help in
Peru, Chile, and the southern Argentinian plains.
The climate info I have says the rainy season for most of South America
runs from December to March |
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|
| From: RalphWiens 12/10/2002 3:01 pm 3453.262 in reply to
3453.261 |
| |
I agree that an August departure should work best. Whats
the weather like in Alaska during late August early September? |
| |
|
| From: AlbinoRhino (OrionRider) 12/10/2002 7:34 pm
3453.264 in reply to 3453.253 |
| |
Don't forget that when it is summer in the northern
hemisphere, it is Winter in the southern hemisphere. In other words, I
suspect that Tierra del Fuego in August will be like Canada in February,
though I don't think there is much snow. I haven't researched climate
yet... but there will be cold temps down south. |
| |
|
| From: Joe (The Iceman) (May125) 12/11/2002 3:39 pm
3453.282 in reply to 3453.262 |
| |
<Whats the weather like in Alaska during late
August early September>
Monsoon season; wettest part of the year: The haul road would more than
likely be a mud pie. June would be the dryest.. |
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|
| From: Dtop1 12/13/2002 10:35 pm 3453.288 in reply to
3453.224 |
| |
Most people who do this trip don't use the Carnet and,
of those that do, most find that it is no longer accepted in many
countries. You do NOT have to pay import duties to ride through these
countries. For a small fee each one gives you a temporary import permit
for some limited time, depending on country, from 30 days to 6 months.
I highly recommend the Mexico and Central America Handbook and the
South America Handbook published by Footprint Handbooks - usually avail
on Amazon. I've found them the best for this kind of travel. They give
you vehicle entry requirements for each country. |
| |
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| From: AlbinoRhino (OrionRider) 12/14/2002 9:01 am
3453.289 in reply to 3453.288 |
| |
<<Most people who do this trip don't use the Carnet and,
of those that do, most find that it is no longer accepted in many
countries. You do NOT have to pay import duties to ride through these
countries. For a small fee each one gives you a temporary import permit
for some limited time, depending on country, from 30 days to 6 months.>>
Yes, you are correct. And thanks for the correction. My previous
statement was based on limited knowledge. I've just finished reading
Werner Bausenhart's book and this fact came out. When the Carnet is
accepted it seems the border crossing hassle varies according to the
officials involved; same as when the rider must purchase a temporary
permit. So the expense of the Carnet probably is not warrented. Also, I
found interesting that some of the countries apparently don't trust
their own officials in collecting fees as the tourist must go to the
local bank and deposit the necessary funds into the agency's account.
Then there are the cases of *unofficial fees*, aka "development aid," to
smooth the travel process or negotiate an on-the-spot speeding fine (no
receipt, senor, lo siento <grin>). How much to budget for development
aid?
Realizing Werner's book detailed his trip five years ago, road and
political conditions change continuously, as do bank policies regarding
money changing. During Werner's trip many of the ATMs would not dispense
funds on his credit card. And the medium of exchange would vary:
sometimes only cash (US$ only) or travelers checks (only American
Express in US$) and occasionally advances on credit/ATM cards. And
although Visa seems to be the credit card of choice many businesses and
hotels did not accept the card |
| |
|
| From: Dtop1 12/14/2002 11:10 am 3453.290 in reply to
3453.289 |
| |
My riding buddy and I paid not one penny in "development
aid" on a one month r/t to Guatemala in Nov. even though I tried to do
so to keep our bikes from sprayed with insecticide entering Guatemala.
However, I'd budget $20/border to be on the safe side.
The easiest/cheapest way to get money is with an ATM card (not Debit
card.) With an ATM card all you pay is a transaction fee of $1.25 or so.
With a Debit card you also pay a percentage of the amount withdrawn.
Also make sure your PIN is 4 digits not 5 as many machines will not
accept a 5 digit pin. |
| |
|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 12/26/2002 9:47 am 3453.294
in reply to 3453.293 |
| |
It seems we're going to catch bad weather/conditions
somewhere along our almost-pole-to-pole ride. i would think a good
timeframe is one where we leave on the edge of the beginning of our
winter. this means we would get to ushuaia in late spring.
i'm thinking august 15 to november 15. i think 3 months is realistic,
but not too sure how to gauge it because i haven't the foggiest about
the route south of mexico as well as some of the sights we might venture
to in mexico, central and south america. |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 12/26/2002 5:28 pm 3453.298 in reply to
3453.293 |
| |
I'm in the middle of some extensive research regarding
route options. In some cases, there are very few choices; in others, we
have a number of ways to go. I will post the routes here in the next
couple days.
In selecting between routes, we have to look at:
1 - Personal safety / civil unrest
2 - Effect of choice on travel time (are we going to try to set a
ceiling for planned time?)
3 - Interesting sights or locales en route
4 - Personal goals or interests of participants
5 - Options for extending the trip (i.e., travel south on the west
coast, back north on the east).
I would think (as an example) that item 3 would have the most effect on
the interest of the trip for travelogue or sponsorship purposes. |
| |
|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 12/26/2002 5:50 pm 3453.299
in reply to 3453.298 |
| |
like i've said before, i plan to suck the marrow out of
this trip. what does that mean? i want to see and do as much as
possible. this is not an endurance run for me. for that reason, i'm
alotting 3 months for the trip. will it take that long? heck, i don't
know. i think that depends on 1, 2, 3 and 4.
i would like to travel down on the west coast and travel back on the
east, but i'm game either way. i was thinking about spending some time
in sao paulo, rio and a few other brazilian destinations on the way
back.
i think we should assemble a list of interesting destinations and vote
on what we all want to see. that will help define the route, determine
time required... |
| |
|
| From: chfnelson 12/27/2002 1:32 am 3453.301 in reply to
3453.118 |
| |
In my previous post, to which this is a reply, I laid
out the most likely basic route. It goes down the West coast of SA,
based on the Pan American Hwy., and it would be easy to make side trips
from the basic route to 'suck the marrow'. After Ushuaia, it would be
'easy' to return up the East coast as far as Rio. I myself would like to
visit Brazilia.
As you can see from my Alternate Route 4, north of Brazilia the roads
will be marginal, and fuel/repair could be a big problem. I would plan
on either selling my bike in Rio, or shipping it back from there (if I
make the trip). There is the alternative of heading west across Brazil
to Peru on 'main' roads, which is probably the route that Ron Ayres uses
in his South American 50CC, if one wants to ride back north and retrace
the route on the West coast.
I had planned to make an unopposed landing in Colombia. However, it
seems as if most of the people want to bypass that country.
The map I used is certainly not the most detailed one available, and
better maps need to be procured before departure. I tried to pick paved
roads as far as possible. I know that what is considered paved in SA may
not meet our definition, and the current surface is entirely in doubt.
Based on road conditions, it does seem as if a good dual purpose bike
would be the best choice.
I think some our Alaskan brothers have said the August is the beginning
of Monsoon season in their state. I do not relish the idea of riding to
Prudhoe and back in the rain. Ushuaia is located at 54.48 South, still
north of the Anarctic Circle. Prudhoe Bay is 70.20 North. While the
weather at the southern tip of SA is known for storms, I don't know if
it would get quite as cold as Alaska. I think it is more important to
plan for the cold at the North end of the trip, and rain in the South.
I would think more of a departure date in July. That would be mid-winter
in SA. By the time we would get to southern Peru, it should be going
into spring. |
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|
| From: Dtop1 12/27/2002 1:15 pm 3453.303 in reply to
3453.301 |
| |
A July departure from Alaska will take you through Mx
and Central America in July or Aug. You will be in miserable, wet, humid
conditions with lots of bugs that time of year at least until Panama.
At best you should think of having no more than 3 people in any riding
group because of group dynamics and logistics. And you might want to
think about doing a 2 or 3 week warmup ride south of the border about a
year before the actual ride with people who are seriously interested.
That will allow you to shake out your gear and give riders a chance to
see who they might want to ride with or not ride with. Another reason
for small groups is to segregate by interest. You want to take time to
see the sights. Others might, for whatever reasons, want to make a speed
run out of it. You'd have conflict right away mixing the two types of
riders. |
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|
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 12/28/2002 3:41 pm 3453.316 in reply to
3453.1 |
| |
Route alternatives in detail - Pt 1
For your convenience, I am describing these routes based on the AAA map
titled "The Caribbean, Central America & South America" - this is the
2001-2002 edition available from your auto club, and the bar code number
on the back is 10310201.
I would also recommend three maps from International Travel Maps - these
provide much more detail, and may arguably be more up to date. In some
areas, they also indicate the presence of gas stations (very handy!).
I will start at the border of Mexico and Guatemala; I think it’s from
that point that we need to have the most planning, as the Mexican routes
are much better understood.
Section 1 – Mexico/Guatemala border to Choluteca Honduras
Alternative 1 – Coastal route
This route is probably the faster for this segment, but does not go
through some of the more interesting areas.
Reach the border on Mx 200 and cross at Ciudad Hidalgo to Tecun Uman,
Guatemala. Follow Guatemala highway CA-2 (the “Pacific Highway”) to the
El Salvador border crossing at Hachadura. Continue on El Salvador CA-2
to its junction with CA-1 (the Pan American Highway) and cross the
border into Honduras at El Amatillo. Continue on CA-1 (note this is NOT
Honduras highway 1) to Choluteca
An option exists to cut northeast at Escuintla, Guatemala and join the
route in Alternative 2 at Guatemala City.
Alternative 2 – Highlands route
This is my preferred route, as I am very interested in the ruins along
the way, and in the local villages and peoples. This route includes a
number of great opportunities for such sights.
In Mexico, visit Palenque, and then travel south on Mx 199 to Mx 190 –
the Pan American Highway. Follow Mx 190 to the border crossing between
El Jocote, Mx and La Mesilla, Guatemala. Follow what is now CA-1 to
Guatemala City. Turn northeast on CA-9, and at either Sanarate or later
at Rio Hondo turn off CA-9 and head for Honduras. I propose the Rio
Hondo route, turning on to CA-10 and then CA-11. CA-11 is an improved
road (some pavement, some questionable – I’ve been on it in a van) that
crosses the Honduras border east of El Florido, Guatemala. Just inside
Honduras (abt 5 miles) is Copan Ruinas – the Mayan ruins of Copan. This
is in my mind a highlight stop – I visited there about 5 years ago.
From Copan, Follow the now all paved CA-11 to its junction with CA-4,
and then follow CA-4 to San Pedro Sula – this city is Honduras’ main
commercial center. From San Pedro Sula turn back into the highlands on
CA-5 (which is also Honduras Highway 1) for Tegucigalpa. Continue south
on CA-5 to its junction with CA-1 at Jicaro Galan, and then follow CA-1
to Choluteca.
Section 2 – Choluteca to the Nicaragua/Costa Rica border
The choices here are similar – a highlands option and a coastal option.
I’m not as familiar with this area, so I have no strong preference yet.
Both roads are described as generally good and paved (by local standards
and by the AAA).
Alternative 1 – Coastal route
Follow Nicaragua Highway 12 (have to check this designation, unclear on
all maps) to Chinandega, and then on to Leon. From Leon, continue on to
Managua, and then follow Nicaragua Highway 2 to the border crossing at
Penas Blanca, Nicaragua – the nearest town in Costa Rica is La Cruz.
Alternative 2 – Highlands route
From Choluteca, follow Nicaragua Highway 1 (the Pan American Highway) to
Somota and Condega and continue on south. It may be possible to bypass
Managua, although the road is indicated as being only “improved” on the
AAA map - my more detailed map shows it fully paved. This cut-off road
runs from Tipitapa to Masaya.
From Masaya, continue as in Alternative 1 to the border.
Section 3 – Costa Rica and Panama
Geography and available roads limits us here – I will describe one route
with two optional excursions or extensions.
From the border near La Cruz, follow the Pan America Highway (Costa Rica
Highway 1) to San Jose, the capital. Continue on the PAH (now Costa Rica
2) to the border with Panama, crossing east of Neilly, Costa Rica. The
nearest town in Panama is Concepcion. Continue on the PAH (now Panama
Highway 1) to Panama City.
Optional Excursion 1 – Beach Party!
Just before San Jose, turn towards the Pacific at San Mateo on Costa
Rica 143. Jaco Beach is highly regarded by Canadians who travel there
every year, and might make a great rest stop for a day. Continue along
the coast on 239 and 22 before rejoining the main route at San Isidro.
The AAA map shows these roads as being improved (rather than paved) as
you go south from Jaco, so backtracking may be in order depending on
preferences.
Optional Excursion 2 – the Canal
It seems silly to me to not take time to see the canal if in Panama. I
would propose we take a day to tour over to Colon and back, stopping
along the way to see the sights (and the locks).
This may be a good way to spend a day (or even two) while we sort out
any transport issues in getting to our next leg in South America.
Section 4 – Jump, frog, jump!
Two alternatives in direction, two alternatives in method. From Panama
City, I would suggest we travel to Ecuador (if following the west route
down) or to Venezuela (if following the east route – more to come on
this). Columbia remains in question, and (unless a 25-year old war is
settled) will be at issue for the foreseeable future. I’d love to travel
it, but I want to have a good likelihood of making the rest of the trip.
The two alternatives are boat and air. The boat issues are the length of
time it may take, and availability of transport. The air issues are
cost, and – well actually, it’s cost!
However, having lived in areas where only bush planes fly, I would
suggest if we have a larger group, we may well be able to arrange a
charter for ourselves and the bikes at a very competitive cost. This is
well worth exploring as we continue our planning.
Landing points are likely to be Guayaquil and Quito in Ecuador, or
Maracaibo or Caracas in Venezu |
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| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 12/28/2002 4:23 pm 3453.317
in reply to 3453.316 |
| |
i like the sound of the highland routes. i would enjoy
doing some hiking back to some of the more treasured and less trampled
ruin sites. if possible, i'd like to camp out at one of the temples,
watch the stars and see what spirits show up. heh heh.
jaco beach sounds like a great place to unwind for at least a day. and
you're right, if you're in panama, it would be a waste to not check out
the canal at least a few locks...
with regard to jumping... isn't venezuela somewhat of a hot spot now in
addition to colombia? regardless of direction, i would like to float as
it takes a little extra time, but that time can be spent unwinding and
tending to the bike, body, mind... about 6 years ago i flew out of the
grand canyon to las vegas on an old bush plane. all i remember is
praying to set foot on ground again without coming to an abrupt stop.
basically, i prefer my planes have jet engines. :) but i'll do whatever
the majority of folks are doing.
somewhere in ecuador there has to be an equatorial monument. i sure
would like to get a picture of us at the equator. |
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| From: ITSecurity 12/28/2002 4:29 pm 3453.318 in reply to
3453.316 |
| |
Route alternatives in detail – Pt 2
This discussion describes the western route through South America,
beginning in Ecuador. I am using the maps described in the earlier post.
The main route is described first, followed by some diversion options of
interest.
Section 5 – Ecuador to Vita, Peru
From Quito (or after traveling inland from Guayaquil), travel south on
what appears to be the Pan American Highway (Ecuador Highway 35) past
Cuenca to the border with Peru (near La Tina). The AAA map has this
marked as paved throughout, but the more detailed map shows unimproved
roads near the border area. If so, a diversion along the coast on
Ecuador 10 would cross the border near Huaquillas before rejoining the
main road near Sullana, Peru. Follow Peru 1 (the PAH) south.
Continue to Trujillo, and maybe take time to see the ruins at Chan Chan,
and the nearby Moche pyramids. These are both close to the road.
Continue south on Peru 1 to Lima. From Lima, continue on Peru 1 south,
stopping to see the Nazca lines and associated ruins.
Continue southwards on Peru 1 to Vitor – a major junction here allows
important options for the next section.
Optional Excursion 3 – Cuzco, Machu-Picchu, and Lake Titicaca
By turning inland from Nazca, you can follow Peru 26 (an improved but
apparently unpaved road) to the mountain city of Cuzco and the nearby
major ruins at Machu-Picchu. This is non-trivial adventure, folks –
you’re going from sea level to 12,000 feet on this run, in relatively
short distances. From Cuzco, I would recommend following Peru 3 to the
junction at Puno, where we could pick up the track described in the next
section, and either follow east to Bolivia or west and south along the
coast of Peru – more details follow.
Section 6 – The Split in Southern Peru
Alternative 1 – Over the Andes to Bolivia and Paraguay
From Vitor we follow Peru 30 to Puno, joining the track from the above
option. Then it’s Peru 3 to the Bolivian border near Copacabana, Peru
and on to La Paz. One road apparently involves a ferry crossing of Lake
Titicaca, while the other (marked as unimproved on one map, improved on
the other) loops around the south end of the lake to La Paz.
From La Paz, we follow Bolivia 1 to Oruro, then Bolivia 6. Between Oruro
and Sucre, we can choose between going straight south into Argentina or
southeast through Paraguay. It would appear the Paraguay route would be
very rough….
1a – the Paraguay option
Continue from Sucre on Bolivia 6, and cross the border near the
fortification of Euginio Garay. Follow Paraguay 9 on to Asuncion, then
cross the border into Argentina and continue south on Argentina 11 to
Santa Fe and on to Buenos Aires. From BA, continue south on Argentina 3
all the way to the Cape.
1b – the Northern Pampas
Just south of Oruro, follow Highway 1 when it turns off. Continue south
on 1 to the border south of El Puente, Bolivia. Carry on south (a couple
of road choices are available but need investigation) to Salta and
Argentina Highway 9. Follow 9 south past Tucuman to Cordoba. At Cordoba,
we can either follow 9 to BA and so on, or continue south along 36 to 35
and so on to Bahia Blanca, where we’d again join Argentina 3.
Alternative 2 – south on the coastal route
From Vitor, Peru (remember that place?) follow South to the border of
Chile, near the Chilean town of Arica. From the border, follow Chile
Highway 5 south (the PAH) or (as an option) the coastal Highway 1.
Continue this route all the way south to Santiago.
From Santiago, travel across the spine of the Andes into Argentina
through one of the world’s most amazing tunnels at Los Andes. Carry on
to the city of Mendoza.
From Mendoza, one can take Argentina 7 east to BA, or follow the route
described below.
Follow 143 south from Mendoza to San Isabel, then take 151 south past
Puelen and on to General Roca, then follow 22 and 251 to join Argentina
3 at the town of San Antonio Oueste.
From here, all the practical routes are the same.
Section 7 – Argentina Highway 3 to the tip
From wherever we join 3, we carry on south to the ferries. Two towns
have ferries to Tierra del Fuego – San Gregorio and Punta Arenas; we’ll
need to find out which are more reliable and bike friendly. Once on the
island, we carry on to Ushuaia.
This bottom section involves multiple crossings of the border of Chile
and Argentina |
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| From: ITSecurity 12/28/2002 4:44 pm 3453.321 in reply to
3453.318 |
| |
Route alternatives in detail – Post 3
This section describes the eastern travel option through South America.
I am somewhat skeptical of this approach, although I would love to see
Manaus and the Amazon basin. I present it for discussion and thought…
Some have expressed concern over Venezuela as part of the route – I
think that the troubles there are more transitory than (for example)
Columbia, but we have a couple years to see whether things calm down (or
for that matter, flare up somewhere else!).
Section 8 – Maracaibo to Asuncion
This section describes the only practical way I can see to do this route
– from Asuncion, Paraguay on, it would follow the routes described in
the previous post (#2 of this series).
From Maracaibo, follow Venezuela Route 17 to Highway 1, and then either
1 or 11 to Caracas. From Caracas, follow route 9 to Barcelona, then 1 to
Maturin, and then 10 to the border south of Santa Elena.
This section is likely to be bad road and little fuel – a very demanding
section through the northern lip of the Amazon basin.
Continue on Brazil Highway 174 to Caracarai, ferry across the Rio Branco,
and then follow 210. 174 splits south to Manaus from 210, and that’s
where we’ll go. From Manaus, a ferry starts us on Brazil 319 headed for
Porto Velho.
IMPORTANT NOTE! At least one reliable source says this road is
impassable much of the year, and requires vehicles be ferried from
Manaus to Porto Velho. However, this is the only major route south
through central Brazil, and there is no practical alternative along the
coast….
From Porto Velho, continue south on 364. Two routes of about equal
length diverge south of Vilhena (364 and 174/70) – they reconverge at
Cuiaba. Follow 364 to 163, then turn south on 163 and head for Ponta
Pora. We cross the border into Paraguay near here.
In Paraguay, follow route 5 (of questionable quality) south to Paraguay
route 3, and then take 3 to Asuncion. Rejoin the other route here.
Option – take 70 east from Cuiaba to Brasilia, and then 40 to Rio de
Janeiro. Then go south on Brazil 116 to the Uruguay border, Uruguay 8 to
Montevideo, and the ferry from Colonia, Uruguay to Buenos Aires. Rejoin
the route here. |
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| From: ITSecurity 12/28/2002 4:53 pm 3453.322 in reply to
3453.321 |
| |
Route alternatives in detail – Post 4
This section describes what we do when we’re done – some ideas for
getting back (if we want to!) For those of us not prepared to abandon
our bikes, some key thoughts are the availability of a port with
container shipping facilities, and a major airport.
I would suggest following Argentina route 3 back north from the Cape.
This leads us to Buenos Aires as a first connecting point. Those in a
hurry can easily fly home from here, and shipping is easily arranged
(relatively speaking!).
I would like to continue on to Montivideo, Uruguay (ferry crossing
required), and then north to Porto Alegre Brazil. From there, I hope to
continue to Sao Paulo, and on to Rio de Janeiro. I may take a side trip
to Brasilia before returning to Rio to ship my bike and fly home |
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| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 12/28/2002 5:13 pm 3453.324
in reply to 3453.322 |
| |
well i like the western routes and excursions better
than the eastern routes. i'm thinking about traveling back up the
eastern route through as much of brazil as possible and then do a south
american CC ride to the west coast and continue the ride back home.
i know it really doesn't mean much right now, but how many of us are
thinking about either selling or shipping our bike and flying home? i
would like to ride out of my driveway one morning and return some
weeks/months later on the same bike having completed the entire trip on
two wheels. |
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| From: ITSecurity 12/29/2002 4:27 am 3453.328 in reply to
3453.322 |
| |
A final note --
Lest anyone misunderstand, I am not trying to establish an agenda of my
own design, or put forward ideas I developed on my own.
These posts are an attempt to consolidate the discussions that have
occured around some common references and interests, and give people
resources (i.e., easily acquired maps, etc) that will help us further
clarify what each of us wants out of this trip.
Don't take ANY of what I've said as gospel - if you don't offer
feedback, we will all be the poorer for it. I have already drawn upon
the ideas that Jason, Dave, Alan, and others have put forward; I've only
added my own spin and aligned the ideas with the references I can find.
Please, feel free to respond and offer support, alternatives and
constructive criticism - that way, we will all get the best possible
ride the western hemisphere can offer! |
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| From: ITSecurity 12/29/2002 4:30 am 3453.329 in reply to
3453.324 |
| |
I like the idea of riding back, but two things get in
the way for me.
First, no matter how early in the season we leave, it will be full
winter in western Canada by the time I could ride back. Not a workable
solution...
Second, I will likely be stretching things to get the 3 months plus I
would like for the full trip and partial return. Should I be able to
take longer, I'll ride with you, otherwise..... |
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| From: Dtop1 1/6/2003 2:26 pm 3453.363 in reply to
3453.356 |
| |
Of the two crossings into Guatemala from Mexico I'd
recommend the one that crosses at La Mesilla and definitely against the
Tapachula crossing near the Pacific coast. Tapachula is a commercial
crossing, very busy and everyone has his hand out. Also you'd have to
watch your stuff like a hawk. La Mesilla sees little vehicular traffic.
In Novemeber my buddy and I paid not one penny extra to cross and we did
so in about half an hour. You can lose the better part of a day with the
lines and hassles at Tapachula. |
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| From: ITSecurity 1/6/2003 3:17 pm 3453.364 in reply to
3453.363 |
| |
I personally prefer the inland route through that area
because I would like to loop into Honduras. I've been there in the past,
and I'd love to see Copan again; I found Honduras relatively easy to
travel through, and the people were great. Checkpoints were (at least at
that time) courteous and quick.
Besides, I would like to avoid El Salvador! |
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| From: Dtop1 1/6/2003 5:17 pm 3453.365 in reply to
3453.364 |
| |
Other reasons to avoid the Tapachula route are that the
coast is hot and humid and there are lots of robberies along the route
on the Guat. side. If you cross at La Mesilla he scenery is spectacular
on the Pan Am hwy and it is cool because of the altitude. |
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| From: ITSecurity 2/4/2003 1:31 am 3453.381 in reply to
3453.377 |
| |
Haven't had much discussion on routes since the flurry
in December -- hopefully this message will help people get back to
thinking about whether they wwant to ride the train to Macchu Piccu, or
hear the opera in Manaus.... |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) 2/4/2003 6:45 am 3453.382 in reply
to 3453.381 |
| |
What about the thought of including in the route the IBA
South American Cross Country for those of us that might want to throw an
IBA ride in the middle of it. |
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| From: chfnelson 2/4/2003 4:52 pm 3453.385 in reply to
3453.382 |
| |
Part of the routing suggestion I originally made
provided for ending in Rio after Ushuaia. From there it appears there is
paved road to Brasilia and on to Chile.
An alternative would be to go from Chile across to Rio then down the
Atlantic coast.
Of course, some of the more hard core will probably try for a 100CCC.
Not me, thank you. I will be lucky just to make the base ride. |
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| From: ITSecurity 2/4/2003 8:46 pm 3453.387 in reply to
3453.385 |
| |
I like the route going from Chile across the Andes at
Santiago, then south over the Argentine Pampas to Ushuaia. That allows
those who wish to ride back north along the east coast, and finish at
any of the ports, all the way up to Rio - where our SOs can meet use,
help us put the bikes in containers, and fly home with us after a bit of
R&R.... |
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From: AL2000 (1343) 4/23/2003 12:04 pm 3453.443 in reply
to 3453.442
|
| |
I think we are to the point that we should establish a
route committee. The job of this committee will be to determine route
alternatives and develop a timeline. |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) 4/23/2003 5:18 pm 3453.447 in reply
to 3453.444 |
| |
I was thinking your could be chair of the routing
committee since you have been working on it. I'll let you select your
committee from the others that want to participate. I would like for the
committee to do three things:
Establish one or more routes with a list of key points of interest
Establish a time line (how long is it going to take).
Establish a window for the ride (dates).
When you get your committee together you can establish a time line for
getting us the information, that way we can hassle you and keep you on
your toes. |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) 4/23/2003 7:36 pm 3453.449 in reply
to 3453.448 |
| |
In looking back, it looks like Dave Nelson might have
submitted the first proposal, so we will let you and Dave be co-chairs
of this committee if that is ok. |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) 5/25/2003 3:29 pm 3453.467 in reply
to 3453.462 |
| |
Tony: Would you post a milestone chart with critical
decisions so we can get some discussion going on specific elements. I
would like to get the key decisions made so we can get dates pinned
down. |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) 5/25/2003 3:35 pm 3453.469 in reply
to 3453.466 |
| |
Tony and Dave are co-chairs of the committee to develop
routes. Once we have the routes we can look at a time frame, and work
out the dates. I have asked Tony to set milestones for these activities.
If there are others that would like to take a leadership role in the
planning, please post here. There will be a lot of jobs to do.
One job is to maintain the website. I can provide you with access but
you will have to have an editing tool (I use Frontpage). I started to
summarize all of the messages in this thread but just don't have time to
keep it up to date. Anybody interested? |
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| From: ITSecurity 5/25/2003 4:03 pm 3453.471 in reply to
3453.467 |
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Will do - been working on some stuff to put in front of
everyone. |
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| From: PastaBurner 5/28/2003 4:02 pm 3453.485 in reply to
3453.484 |
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Unfortunately, my friend in the embassy in Chile is
being reassigned to the Philipines in January. Any questions about Chile
can be forwarded and maybe he can provide us a new contact in the
embassy before he leaves. |
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| From: ITSecurity 5/28/2003 9:28 pm 3453.487 in reply to
3453.485 |
| |
Most of the thinking has us south into Chile from Peru
along the main roads, and carrying on to Santiago. From there, we'd
cross through the big tunnel to Argentina, and carry on south to TDF.
(An alternate is to go through Bolivia and Uruguay and not enter Chile,
but that route has some issues we'll have to discuss)
If your friend has any comments on the issues of the upper part of
Chile, or about the ferries and other issues around Tierra del Fuego and
the shared territory with Argentina, that would be most helpful - as
would suggestions for who to contact in any other embassies in SA... |
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| From: PirateJohn (TeamConfuzed) 6/3/2003 8:32 am
3453.502 in reply to 3453.500 |
| |
Got my BMWMOA magazine yesterday and there was an
interesting article about Ron Ayres' new touring company which put on a
bash in Brazil. The article may be up on the BMWMOA webiste but if
anyone wants a snail mailed photocopy drop me a line backchannel and
I'll see what I can do.
Bottom line is that the group used BMW bikes, primarily big GS's and
some F-650's, but also some R1150RT's and such with roadgoing
plasticwork. None of the scheduled mileage involved being on anything
except pavement although they did do one optional day that had a dirt
road and a washed out bridge crossing to content with.
I think that the moral of the story is that we can assume more and more
that except for very limited portions (generally the extreme northern
and southern portions of this trip) that you'll be on pavement. |
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| From: PirateJohn (TeamConfuzed) 6/3/2003 11:52 am
3453.507 in reply to 3453.506 |
| |
Further thoughts on route planning:
Sanborn's Insurance (
www.sanbornsinsurance.com ) offers an excellent mile-by-mile guide
to driving in Mexico. I was just getting some info for my July 4th
Mexican trip and noticed that they are now offering Central American
information as well.
Vehicle importation into Central America is at
http://www.sanbornsinsurance.com/cacustoms.html
They describe the best route into Central America as: "McAllen, TX
through Veracruz on down through La Ventosa along through the Pacific
Coast down to Tapachula. From La Ventosa through Guatemala you mostly
have 4 lane highways. This route will have about 10 toll bridges ranging
from $20.00 - $30.00 total and about 8 military checkpoints. These
checkpoints are not really anything to worry about, at times they will
only ask for documents."
Very good, practical stuff! |
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| From: ITSecurity 6/5/2003 1:55 pm 3453.516 in reply to
3453.514 |
| |
Some of the basic concepts that have guided our thinking
so far...
* We want to limit the number of different models of bikes, so that we
can carry and share spares more easily
* We generally want to treat this not as a speed run, but as an
opportunity for experience, adventure and exploration. The objective is
to get the largest possible number of participants from Prudhoe to
Ushuaia, while having a wonderful experience along the way
* We haven't yet selected a time of year for the trip, but the main
issue will be the difference in the seasons between the two extreme ends
of the trip - and the change in seasons over the duration of the ride
* As much as possible, decisions will be made by consensus among all
those who plan to go, not by arbitrary choices of individuals. If people
want to voice an opinion, it will be listened to and considered valuable
* This is a cooperative effort - everyone will contribute to it and help
make it happen. It isn't a profit-making venture - it's an enabling one
Overall, I would say participants should be ready to buy a bike if they
don't own one of those selected (I am attempting to persuade others of
the worthiness of the V-Strom, but I'm ready to buy one of the three
selected bikes if my choice isn;t selected). Participants should be
ready to make their voice heard about things that will make the ride
meet their goals - but be ready for some give or take so that we can all
achieve the overall goal. Participants should be ready to spend between
45 and 90 days to make the trip.
Welcome to the fun - this is going to be a once in a lifetime
experience, and by contributing to it you make make it yours as well as
ours! |
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| From: wridersteve 6/16/2003 2:23 am 3453.524 in reply to
3453.493 |
| |
The Haul Road, AK-11 is 414 miles each way of gravel,
etc. 100% of the bikes in my party crashed in the large cobbled sections
last summer.
note: One bike in my party of one. Three crashes. :( |
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| From: wadewg 6/17/2003 10:03 pm 3453.543 in reply to
3453.533 |
| |
I prefer western route. I was thinking about coming back
eastern. Which reminds me, no one has been talking about getting back!!
I have spent some time in the areas, paved and improved are right up the
GS alley. Unless we get far afield all normal sights are fairly
accessable. (ie they have tourist busses that make it...) |
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| From: ITSecurity 6/17/2003 10:17 pm 3453.545 in reply to
3453.543 |
| |
Regarding coming back.....
Jason has announced he intends to ride back.
The "official" planning horizon so far is to get people back to Buenos
Aires as part of the planned ride, Thise who wish will find it easy to
return home by air from that point, with both container and air shipment
options available for their bikes. Others may (like me I hope) continue
north to Montevideo, Sao Paulo and Rio, again departing when their time
or funds dictate.
I expect an offshoot thread to handle the question of riding home... |
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| From: ITSecurity 6/19/2003 12:21 am 3453.551 in reply to
3453.550 |
| |
The question of time is already becoming part of the
online polls about pace and objectives, and we will soon be asking the
question about start time choices.
However, the general thinking so far has tended to an early fall start -
it may make things difficult on the Haul Road from Prudhoe, but I don't
think ANYONE wants to arrive at Capr Horn in the middle of winter. The
change of seasons crossing the equator makes this decision particulary
tricky :) |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) 6/22/2003 12:52 pm 3453.554 in reply
to 3453.553 |
| |
I was talking to a fellow from Argentina at the Honda
Hoot. He said the best time of the year for the southern tip is
September-October and we should still expect it to be very cold and that
there will be walls of snow on both sides of the road but it will be
passable.
So it looks like if we plan on leaving Prudhoe Bay in August, we would
be pushing the limits on both ends but would have a successful trip. |
| |
|
| From: AL2000 (1343) 6/23/2003 5:27 pm 3453.560 in reply
to 3453.559 |
| |
The Argentina guy I met at the Hoot also suggested that
we should avoid Columbia. His comment was that he has friends that live
there and they are scared. This was only the opinion of one but worth
considering. |
| |
|
From: wridersteve 6/24/2003 11:06 pm 3453.561 in reply
to 3453.557
|
| |
I don't doubt your friend's information. All I have to
go by is the weather website.
I've been watching the weather site for a couple of weeks now and I have
seen no mention of snow yet. Ushuaia is much farther from the pole than
Deadhorse. Today is U. 31-36, clear and cold; D. 36-47 windy. I'd say
the snow will fall very soon, if it has not already. |
| |
|
| From: AL2000 (1343) 6/25/2003 8:40 am 3453.562 in reply
to 3453.561 |
| |
I haven't done any research but from what they were
telling me, it seemed like we could expect snow walls there about any
time. But they said the road would be clear and no ice on the roads in
August and September.
They also said a snow front could come through and close down the tunnel
(I guess there is a tunnel) for a few days, but not to worry, the locals
use this as a money maker and bring in food, etc.
It does sound like we better have plenty of layers. |
| |
|
| From: wridersteve 6/26/2003 3:23 pm 3453.564 in reply to
3453.562 |
| |
To keep from carrying so much cold weather gear through
the tropics, maybe we could arrange with *someone* in the southern
portion to receive it, shipped via UPS/FedEx/?? worldwide, to be picked
up by us when we approach the other cold extreme area. Just a thought to
consider when we get to the detail-planning /logistics stage. |
| |
|
| From: stafford3327 9/5/2003 9:28 am 3453.591 in reply to
3453.1 |
| |
Can anyone update us on the overall planning status?
Who has what action(s)?
What are the due dates?
2006 will be here before we know it, so wondering what needs to be done.
I know we have some poll results, but not sure what we are doing with
them!
If I can help someone please advise.
A guy who is reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyy looking forward to this
trip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| |
|
| From: AL2000 (1343) 9/5/2003 9:41 am 3453.592 in reply
to 3453.591 |
| |
Can anyone update us on the overall planning
status?
I'm working on the 2004 rides right now. As soon as those are done I'm
going to put more pressure on Tony and Dave to decide on a tentative
route for this ride. We need that first and foremost.
Once we have tentative route we can start detailed planning.
Dave and Tony. Can you get a tentative route put together say by October
30? I would like to move forward on making some other decisions. It does
not have to be the perfect route. We can listen and adjust as we need in
the future. But it is time to commit to something so we can move
forward. |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 9/5/2003 11:57 am 3453.593 in reply to
3453.592 |
| |
Dave and I spoke while we were at Missoula, and we've
pretty much agreed on most of the route south from Guatemala - Dave
recently sent me his final draft of the west route through North
America, and I've finalized my proposal for the central route - we
should post the last survey of this round this weekend, showing those
alternatives and asking people's preference.
I don't see any problem with established the "official planned" route by
the end of October - we will, of course, have to keep an eye on
developments as time goes on. |
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|
| From: stafford3327 9/17/2003 2:01 pm 3453.617 in reply
to 3453.1 |
| |
I have taken the liberty of scratching out a rough plan
for this trip. A lot of which I have gleaned from others on this board.
It is indeed very rough and completely unsolicited.
Possibly someone else has this action, however I have not found such an
assignment.
I would suggest this or another plan be completed by assigning various
sections to individuals and establishing estimated completion dates.
Just trying to drive some action here. I don't believe we can plan
enough for a trip of this magnitude.
DRAFT
DATE \@ "dddd, MMMM dd, yyyy" Saturday, December 11, 2004
PROJECT PLAN: 2006 CROSS CONTINENT TOUR
- DEPARTURE DATES:
1.
Identify waypoints.
2.
Identify target dates for each waypoint.
- ROUTES(S):
1.
Establish routes.
2.
- GROUP(S):
1.
Determine if and how we will divide up the group.
2.
Timing between groups.
- IDENTIFICATION OF LANGUAGE SKILLS:
1.
Identify all participants that have some command of Spanish.
2.
Point out any suggestions for training.
- MOTORCYCLE EVALUATIONS:
1.
Identify all suggested bikes to make the trip.
2.
Establish recommended list (preferably no more than three).
3.
Develop a matrix of the attributes of each bike.
4.
Research reliability of each and include availability of dealers.
- SPARE PARTS:
1.
Recommendations for purchase, including quantities.
2.
Include any extra tools that might be needed.
3.
- PASSPORTS:
1.
Develop recommendations including punch list of paperwork required.
2.
Carnet de Passage
and how and when to obtain.
3.
Recommended vaccinations for each country.
- COMUNICATIONS:
1.
Develop guidelines for communicating.
2.
Develop recommendations for equipment, quantity and where to purchase.
3. What
government restrictions will we encounter?
4.
- NAVIGATION:
1.
Assure we have sufficient maps.
2.
Identify any GPS capabilities we have/need.
- MAINTENANCE:
1.
Assure we have sufficient skills.
2.
Identify maintenance stops in route.
- SPONSERSHIP:
1.
Develop suggestions.
2. Poll
local dealers and clubs.
- SHIPPING:
1.
Based on previous experience develop suggested shippers list.
2.
Assure shippers still valid.
3.
Attempt to strike a deal for multiple bikes.
- INSURANCE:
1. How
to address this for each country for our bikes.
2.
Suggestions for air evacuation coverage.
3.
Identify any medical expertise participating in the ride.
4.
Develop medical first aid kit (probably much more extensive than we
would normally carry). |
| |
|
| From: AL2000 (1343) 9/17/2003 5:20 pm 3453.618 in reply
to 3453.617 |
| |
Tony (ITsecurity) and Dave (Cfnelson) are assigned to
the task of developing an Official route. They are supposed to have this
available to post by Oct. 15. You might want to contact them and see if
they will adopt you into their group. However, we need to come to a
consensus on a route by Oct. 15. |
| |
|
| From: AL2000 (1343) 9/17/2003 5:59 pm 3453.620 in reply
to 3453.619 |
| |
Lot of good information there. As soon as the route is
fixed we will be starting to delegate items from that list and things
will start moving faster. |
| |
|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 9/17/2003 6:34 pm 3453.621
in reply to 3453.617 |
| |
a project plan, eh? we've discussed some of these
things. i can't believe i'm going to say this, but perhaps we need a
formal 'project plan' for this little ride. :) it would help consolidate
the 'whats,' the 'to-dos,' the to-dones' and the 'by-whoms.' |
| |
|
| From: AL2000 (1343) 9/17/2003 6:43 pm 3453.622 in reply
to 3453.621 |
| |
Bob has a great start. I'm working on next years LD
rides and pushing Tony and Dave to get together a route. Next I want to
tie down departure date and total time.
Then we can divide up tasks.
One thing that I have learned about organizing other rides. Focusing on
many things at one time is like herding cats. |
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|
| From: stafford3327 9/17/2003 6:57 pm 3453.623 in reply
to 3453.621 |
| |
I do believe we could go ahead and put target dates to
all of these line items.
If we begin with when do we want the final plan, then we can work
backwards to establish the rest of the dates. We already have the dates
for the routing to be completed. Right Tony/Dave! :) |
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|
| From: PirateJohn (TeamConfuzed) 9/18/2003 1:53 pm
3453.626 in reply to 3453.625 |
| |
Seriously, the plan as presented is an excellent start
and shows the number of points that need to be covered.
I'm game. And this gentleman has some energy. Alan, why don't you put
him together with the other Offishal Planners and see what they come up
with on October 15th. From there, we can start discussin', cussin', and
putting into action. |
| |
|
| From: AL2000 (1343) 9/18/2003 2:29 pm 3453.628 in reply
to 3453.627 |
| |
It is obvious that there are a lot of folks chopping at
the bit. I have other priorities and do not have time to focus on this
project right now.
I have ask Dave and Tony to finalize the route by Oct. 15. My opinion is
that without a base route everything that we would do is generalistic
and while it may be fun to talk about it will be difficult to make a
decision about anything without a route.
We do need somebody to volunteer to develop a web site.
The first step is just sorting through these 627 messages and
summarizing them and then maintaining the summary.
Secondly, we to develop an official trip page with appropriate links
that document our formal decisions as they are made.
With regard to other planning. If there is something that you think
needs to be done, declare your intent here and go about doing it. You do
not have to have my permission to research and plan.
With regard to the project plan if Bob and John want to work on develop
a project plan, that would be great. Again, you are not going to offend
me. |
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|
| From: ITSecurity 9/18/2003 2:59 pm 3453.629 in reply to
3453.628 |
| |
I will take on the website...I will roll my material for
the trip maps into it as that is finalized.
I can begin work on the material that has been posted, including
consolidation of the messages (I need a personal project for the fall
and winter! .
Is there any easy way of gathering the content of the messages to a text
file, or is this something that I need to do piece by piece? Is this a
feature in Delphi Plus (I have Advanced)?
If this is satisfactory, then I welcome anyone's input on how the site
should be organized and what features (searches, hypertext, etc.) it
will need. If the features go beyond what I can support on my base site,
I'll move it to a location where I can add more capabilities. |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 10/23/2003 12:21 pm 3453.653 in reply
to 3453.651 |
| |
So far, the voting in the poll is that we not rush
things. That means we are planning a trip of up to three months (for the
moment).
Not counting rest days, maintenance days, etc., I'm planning on an
overall average of 500 km a day. A rough estimate of the distance is
about 22,000 km, so that means about 44 days. Add the time to get to
Prudhoe in the first place, and to get back from South America, at least
one unexpected delay, and it comes out to somewhere between 2 and 3
months in all.
At the moment, the thinking is to start in August. Not the best for the
Haul Road, but the bigger issue is the weather on the other side of the
equator. Leaving North America in September means we cross into the
southern hemisphere just as spring hits there. |
| |
|
| From: AL2000 (1343) 10/25/2003 8:26 pm 3453.664 in reply
to 3453.642 |
| |
Tony, I just can't seem to get caught up. I would
like for you to accept the role of ride coordinator for this ride. I'll
still add my two cents worth but don't want to be holding up the show.
Pirate John and I think it was Bob were working on a project plan. But
it seems like the next step is to develop an itenerary now that the
route has been established.
I'm thinking that we should have a start date in Fairbanks for the trip
up to Prudhoe and back and then we don't need to check in until we get
to the border crossing in Mexico. This will give riders some
flexibility. In fact riders could simply skip the North American leg if
they wanted and meet us at the Mexican Border. It seems that we should
have a check in at each border crossing. We should build in extra days
where some riders might want to a bit extra site seeing. I have studied
the route but if it has an allowance for the SA CC then we should have a
check in at the start and end of that. Those that buzz across can get
some sleep while the others catch up. |
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|
| From: ITSecurity 10/25/2003 9:06 pm 3453.665 in reply to
3453.664 |
| |
If you're comfortable with me taking on that role, I'm
flattered, and would be happy to do so.
The itinerary is likely the next step. Based on a variety of potential
start dates, we can put forward some sample schedules for the run. We
already have some input from the poll on how quickly (or slowly) people
want to take the trip.
I agree with your view about how relaxed to keep the group, and the
potential for those who want to ride "part" of the way. I think there's
another opportunity where, working with someone like Ron Ayres, we can
have people join us for the southernmost leg as well.
For the start, I do have one modification of your comment - I'd like to
get a group start from the Arctic Ocean. It will help with publicity,
sponsorship, and fundraising (including for charities) if we can show
the full group at the start and the finish.
I am still debating the question of whether the SA CC should be inside
the schedule of the trip, or a post-trip extension to the event. We
should perhaps sound out how many want to do that ride, and whether they
have strong feelings about one or the other option.
I will follow your example and call on others to do the real work :)
Especially John and Bob, for example for the the logistics and project
plan. |
| |
|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 10/26/2003 2:28 pm 3453.668
in reply to 3453.664 |
| |
"I have studied the route but if it has an allowance for
the SA CC then we should have a check in at the start and end of that."
i'm planning on doing that on the way back. figured i'd mosey up through
brazil and then make the run over to chile. might be cool to incorporate
this into the ride though. hmmm... i'd likely take the time to
sight-see. |
| |
|
| From: stafford3327 10/27/2003 8:45 am 3453.673 in reply
to 3453.665 |
| |
John and I had targeted the end of this month to issue
the next revision of the project plan for comment.
However I have been out of town for most of this month so not certain of
the target date. I will contact John today and see where we stand.
Since John has retired now he should have lots of time!! |
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|
| From: rydnfool Jul-28 11:47 pm 3453.722 in reply to
3453.318 |
| |
I certainly hope excursion #3 works out. I was in
Cuzco,Machu Picchu, Pisac and olandothombo[sp] long ago and would love
to see it again. It's burnt into my memory as well as the Urabumba[sp]
River which much later ends up the Amazon. Hopefully it will break that
way. |
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|
From: rydnfool Sep-30 10:05 am 3453.731 in reply to
3453.725
|
| |
I don't know where we are in our planning of routes &
dates, but I came across something in my pre - ride research that might
be pertinate.In Werner Bausenhart's book "8 Around the Amereicas on a
Motorcycle" by Whitehorse Press on page # 158 it reads "Having done my
homework I was convinced that arriving at The End of the World before
the beginning of the southern summer, Decenber 21,would be foolhardy.
Would I attempt to ride up to Prudhoe Bay on a motorcycle during the
artic winter?" He got caught in snow storms at that time as he left
"Terra".
Just food for thought. This would have us theoretically leaving Prudhoe
Bay the middle to the end of October. I haven't studied that season in
Prudhoe. Has Anyone else? |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity Sep-30 8:50 pm 3453.732 in reply to
3453.727 |
| |
New stuff coming soon - been talking to the leadership
team, and can promise things will be more active in the near future. |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity Sep-30 8:54 pm 3453.733 in reply to
3453.731 |
| |
The question has been discussed but not decided. I tend
to favor leaving Prudhoe in late August or early September, and arriving
in TdF in late spring (mid to late November). This may still be spotty
weather down south, but if we are going to do this in a continuous run
I'm not sure what would be any better... |
| |
|
| From: jdpfms Oct-1 8:27 pm 3453.734 in reply to 3453.733 |
| |
Prolly already asked and answered, but what are most
people planning to do regarding getting to Prudhoe Bay? I assume some
will ride all the way, but with the ride ahead of them, I also assume
some may transport to Fairbanks or Prudhoe and start from there. BTW,
late Aug. or Early Sept. your thinking, hmmmm, I know I went through an
area with some snow on the ground around Summit Lake (can't recall if
that's still in Yukon or BC) when I rode back in 3rd week of Aug. It
could start to get really cold in Sept. and some snow too. That could
easily make the paved areas a mite spooky as well as the
gravel/mud/slush or whatever the rest of it might be. Just thinking
about it. |
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|
| From: Wheeldog Oct-2 12:22 am 3453.735 in reply to
3453.731 |
| |
We had 5" of snow in Palmer a few days ago......all
melted now. They usually get their first snow fall in Deadhorse much
earlier. When I worked in the Denali Park area......we would have a
"snow pool" usually snowed sometime in August.
If you want to keep an eye on our end of things.....check out this web
page......
http://www.arh.noaa.gov/ |
| |
|
| From: rydnfool Oct-27 3:25 pm 3453.760 in reply to
3453.757 |
| |
I like your plans. I sure would like to go back to
Macchu Picchu,Cusco,Pisac, Olando tombo [sp]in Peru. And I spent 6 weeks
in Chile long ago but might still be able to kick up some old
friendships. I probably won't take my photo's of me with Agusto Pinachet
[sp] taken in '77. Might not be prudent at this juncture. But Chile is a
beautiful country. I especially liked the "El Sorno Volcano" area in the
south. |
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|
| From: Forkless_D Nov-9 2:51 pm 3453.765 in reply to
3453.760 |
| |
I just found this on a travel site.
Where to go in Peru:
Machu Picchu. The greatest archeological site on the planet? A strange,
superbly built little Inca town on a tabletop mountain surrounded by
Andean peaks, with no cars anywhere near. Never found by the Spanish
conquistadors. Go by train, or train and walk 22kms.
***From Jan.2001 you must walk with an official guide or group AND [from
2004] trekkers must be registered for the walk 30 days beforehand - a
nightmare for casual arrivals/gap year travellers etc!*** |
| |
|
| From: rydnfool Nov-9 3:08 pm 3453.767 in reply to
3453.765 |
| |
Your right it's worth the effort. Was there in '77 and
it is one of my best memories. Called " Lost city of the Inca's" There
are different theories as to what actually happened. I hope to go there
again on the return trip.The train leaves from Cusco.There were a few
rooms at a hotel on the Hiram Bingham [ the man who found Machu Picchu]
road zig-zagging up to the settlement from the train station back then .
I don't know what is there now. We should be able to find out. |
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|
| From: Forkless_D Nov-30 2:35 pm 3453.768 in reply to
3453.767 |
| |
Similar to the restrictions I wrote about for
Machu Picchu, here's something I recently read on another forum
regarding access to the Arctic Ocean at Prudhoe Bay. Something to
consider when making plans.
"Zarly and I were quite surprised to find out in Fairbanks that the
average person is not allowed access to the ocean but must first
register for a permit or submit their personal information for inclusion
in a tour such as the one we were to take at least 24 hours in advance.
Who knew?
The tour was ok; essentially a great long self-promotional piece about
the oil companies that are doing the drilling in the Arctic and how
they’re not really damaging anything and put everything back the way
they found it when they’re done. Whatever. I want to see the ocean." |
| |
|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) Nov-30 4:17 pm 3453.769 in
reply to 3453.768 |
| |
it's usually not a problem signing up for the tour in
deadhorse. |
| |
| From:
Joe (The Iceman) (May125) 12/1/2002 4:48 pm 3453.43 in
reply to 3453.6 |
| |
How come? I got through Quebec TWICE last year without
French.
No point to making this TOO easy..Joe
"WHEN A THING IS NOT WORTH OVERDOING; LEAVE IT ALONE". |
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|
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/1/2002 5:21 pm
3453.45 in reply to 3453.33 |
| |
<<...the book is ordered. Thanks for the tip, Alex.>>
Let me give you a bit of background on the author. He was 53 or 54 when
he bought his first motorcycle, a 1991 BMW R100 GS Paris Dakar.
Then at the age of 60 (1997) he took off on his first of 4 world tours;
Prudhoe Bay, Alaska to Ushuaia in South America. The other tours are
listed at Whitehorse Press, the last should be out in a few months.
So this trip should be a walk in the park for you younger guys.
You might change your mind about the bike you are planning to use after
you read the book. (chuckle)
Who would have thought when he was sitting in the cockpit of a C150
taking flying lessons from me in 1981, that this old fart would end up
touring the world on a motorcycle. |
| |
|
| From: Wheeldog 12/1/2002 8:11 pm 3453.56 in reply to
3453.53 |
| |
If you want to make it unique and interesting.......do
it in the winter.....Feb or March. We could use side cars till we got
out of the snow........or spiked tires.
If it is unique enough we may get a sponsor like BMW.......to show how
tough their bikes are.
As far as experience on the motorcycles......we have you iron
butts.......Joe and I can set up gear so the cold won't be a
problem........this is something a potential sponsor would look
at..........the groups experience and ability to pull it off.
If we are going to do this......lets do it like it's never been done
before!!!!! |
| |
|
| From: Jules (GirlOnAGlide) 12/2/2002 5:24 pm 3453.80 in
reply to 3453.79 |
| |
I've posted this link before, but y'all should check out Mariola's KLR.
Hit her Tech Corner link for info...
http://rideoftheheart.com/ |
| |
|
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/2/2002 6:26 pm
3453.82 in reply to 3453.80 |
| |
Checked out her site.
Most of us are going about this touring thing all wrong. We ought to
find sponsors that pay for our tours so that we can have fun on somebody
else's buck. |
| |
|
| From: Jules (GirlOnAGlide) 12/2/2002 6:54 pm 3453.83 in
reply to 3453.82 |
| |
I hear that. Actually, I was headed that direction in
the summer when I thought I wanted to pursue competitive riding as a
sport. I had a major clothing manufacturer who was interested but I
decided not to pursue it. I have issues with sponsorship when it comes
to endurance riding... and with a lot of the other stuff riders get into
when it comes to competition. I don't want any part of it as I prefer
the romantic notion of a rider and their machine without the hoopla of
sponsors, the fanciest of gizmos, etc. I think having someone run
"rabbit" in endurance riding as one of those impurities, but hey, who am
I? When I started riding, I had a puritanical sense about it and I guess
I've come back around to that way of thinking. It's all about an
individual's enjoyment... and I enjoy simple riding. If it weren't for
the IBA giving me a GPS you can bet I wouldn't have one on my bike, even
though there two other GPSs in my home.
But yeah, to do the kind of ride Mariola is doing, sponsorship is
critical. She's funded quite a bit of her ride herself and has dedicated
the majority of her life to her cause. I understand sponsorship when it
is for a greater good and I think she's promoting a worthwhile message.
*steppin' off da box* |
| |
|
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/2/2002 7:22 pm
3453.85 in reply to 3453.83 |
| |
<<But yeah, to do the kind of ride Mariola is doing,
sponsorship is critical.>>
No question about it, if you don't want to foot the bill yourself.
I just have a problem with what the end result is. I have read quite a
few touring books and some of the adventurers relied on sponsorship to
undertake "their" dream. Real "smoothies" in my book because who on this
planet as a whole got to benefit from their dream rides? The "dream"
rider and maybe the sponsors.
I've seen them all, "Round the World to Promote Awareness, and similar
slogans. Yeah, right! Real smoooooth! At least Mariola is offering
something in return; a photo CD of her travels. Mind you, I wouldn't pay
$50 for it. She could also upload them all to her web site and offer
them as a service, sort of like what I do if anyone wants to tour the
Alps.
At least it is better than that "other" girl on her around the world
tour trying to sell you T-shirts so that she can live her dream. Another
smoothie! If I take this further, I'm going to need a sick sac. Just
plain 'ol hate freeloaders. Can you tell?
<<I think she's promoting a worthwhile message.>>
What worthwhile message is she promoting...or did I miss something? |
| |
|
| From: Jules (GirlOnAGlide) 12/2/2002 8:46 pm 3453.87 in
reply to 3453.85 |
| |
No Alex... I missed it, too. At one point, her site had
mentioned more of a goal than the self-satisfaction factor. It's been a
while since I've read her site. My mistake. |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 12/2/2002 9:55 pm 3453.88 in reply to
3453.85 |
| |
We all have had to deal with people who want to sell us
something -- even if what they are selling is a buy-in to their dream.
This is what happens when you contribute to an olympic athlete's
training, or to a motocyclist riding a shoestring to some far-off
location.
We all have the ability to choose the level of worthiness we perceive in
others' actions -- I can't say I find it anything worse than distasteful
when others ask me to fund their efforts, as I usually (with that
distaste) say "no".
I have thought about whether to involve donations to a charity of
importance to me as part of my ride, if I get to make this one we're
exploring -- but I do not intend to use that relationship to ask for
funds -- or even tax deductions. I just may ask people to pledge
donations that they will make directly, and for which they will get the
tax receipts (if there are any). For me, it's a way of making the
enterprise more meaningful, and to help give me a bit more incentive to
get through the tough parts of the trip. |
| |
|
| From:
Slovak (p271) 12/3/2002 4:13 pm 3453.104 in reply to 3453.32
|
| |
While we are on the reading topic, stop by
http://www.kreisels.com/tibet94/
and click on 'Table of Contents' - then download Ray's book. I
discovered his site by accident. He's made several trips across Asia
(Tibet, Pakistan, India, China). This particular account talks about his
3,300-mile trip in 1994. He's got the right idea, just the wrong power
source. He's done all his trips on a bicycle. Still I think there are
many lessons to be learned from him. |
| |
|
| From: chfnelson 12/3/2002 4:41 pm 3453.106 in reply to
3453.105 |
| |
Here is a site we can all use to keep updated on the
Geopolitical issues of the countries involved in the trip.
http://www.countrywatch.com/
It also includes a currency converter link. Right now, 1 USD = 2,805
Colombian Pesos. |
| |
|
| Slovak (p271) 12/3/2002 4:48 pm 3453.107 in reply to
3453.92 |
| |
I've done a bit of a research on this kind of trip
before. So to get it out of the way, add me to the list.
http://www.outbackofbeyond.com/roadsend.htm
This web site is a short account of a series of attempts, starting in
1975.
If anyone is familiar with the Darien Gap in Panama and Colombia - it's
a 120+ mile roadless mixture of jungles, rivers, swamps and ... uh, oh,
banditos. In a later expedition, it took them 741 days to cross this
piece of land. Now, I was thinking about taking some time off from
work...
Check out
http://www.outbackofbeyond.com/gap.htm for stories on their
motorcycle expedition. There is a link to a slide story somehwere on the
site as well. I didn't find the web site well linked, so here are couple
more pointers:
http://www.outbackofbeyond.com/slidesprs.htm
http://www.outbackofbeyond.com/world.htm
Additional stories on the Darien Gap from another adventurer at
http://www.motivation-tools.com/adventures/darien_gap.htm |
| |
|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 12/4/2002 9:50 am 3453.127
in reply to 3453.126 |
| |
turning dreams into action' takes on a whole new meaning
when ron's in the picture. he could certainly hook us up with folks
throughout south america. i'm glad you emailed him. |
| |
|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 12/4/2002 11:37 am 3453.132
in reply to 3453.130 |
| |
when i was smoking on the mexico trip don k sent me the
name of one his buddies in el paso that has made numerous excursions
into mexico. perhaps we could recruit him? |
| |
|
| From: SAFTNUT (dkime2) 12/4/2002 11:45 am 3453.133 in
reply to 3453.132 |
| |
I wouldn't be surprised but what Phil might conduct us
through Mexico - anything for a ride!<g> He sure made it smooth when we
rode there with him. |
| |
|
| From: AL2000 (1343) 12/5/2002 7:17 am 3453.153 in reply
to 3453.149 |
| |
You make some good points. No doubt this trip will push
our mental and physical limits. It is fraught with physical and social
complications. And it will be expensive both in time and money. But it
is also a lifetime opportunity. And as I always say, "There is no limit
on the TOY budget."
How many will actually go? With the 50CC last year, There were less than
20% cancellations but then we picked up some last minute rides and ended
up with a great crowd. Obviously this ride is different and I would
actually encourage riders to join the list if they even think it might
be possible. Why not join in and be part of the fun. As we know from our
many trips you ride the ride many times in the planning stage, the
actual ride, and the post ride stage.
That said. So we have a huge attrition rate. 2006 is a long time off.
When it gets to the point that you know you can't go, remove yourself
from the list. Until then join in on the fun in planning the adventure.
I have no doubt this trip will happen. It may be that it will happen
without me, but it will happen and it will fulfill someone's dream!
That's makes all our efforts worth it. |
| |
|
| From: RalphWiens 12/5/2002 5:46 pm 3453.167 in reply to
3453.166 |
| |
I'm excited about this trip, and 2006 is so far away. I
feel the planning part can be accomplished by 2004 or 2005, but the
reason for the 2006 time frame is so people can get their
finances/vacation time in order. Just wondering if this was the case for
planning this so far out. After reviewing the posts it sounds like the
majority of the group that is committing won't have a problem getting
away whenever, or regardless of 2006 or earlier date, won't be able to
get away for the time frame we're thinking of. I'm committed on going
regardless of the year, but so much can happen in 3 1/2 years. I'll go
with the flow but just wondering. |
| |
|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 12/5/2002 6:06 pm 3453.168
in reply to 3453.167 |
| |
here's my thoughts on 2006...
you see... you gotta think like alan does and, personally, i like the
way alan thinks. we can't do it in 2003 because there's not enough time
to plan, but mostly because it's an IBR year. 2004 would be doable, but
it will take a lot of time, money and effort to prepare for a trip of
this magnitude. so 2004 is out. 2005 isn't a good year because that's
another IBR year. so that leaves 2006 which is far enough away to plan,
prepare... and it doesn't conflict with the IBR. |
| |
|
| From: AlbinoRhino (OrionRider) 12/7/2002 11:24 am
3453.180 in reply to 3453.177 |
| |
With this trip 3-1/2 years away, I want to learn as much
of the Spanish language as I can. Having someone in the group as the
interpretor is great, but what do you do if you are isolated from the
interpreter? Any recommendations on language materials? I spend 40-60
hours/week driving, so cassettes/audio CDs will be a big plus. I know
the fastest way to learn a new language is total immersion, but the
nearest I can get to that is listening/watching spanish programming when
I have the opportunity. Also, I will need to interact with people so I
can learn to *speak* properly. All thoughts and recommendations are
welcome. |
| |
|
| From: Slovak (p271) 12/7/2002 8:57 pm 3453.186 in reply
to 3453.180 |
| |
As far as learning Spanish, I have heard some very good
reviews about Michel Thomas. Apparently he has a unique method that
requires no taking notes or memorizing. He's had celebrities attend his
classes, that cost several thousands of dollars for a weekend.
Check out his CD set at Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0071381643/qid=1039312454/sr=8-5/####/103-7250855-9520660?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
He also has his own web page -
http://www.michelthomas.com/ |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 12/7/2002 9:38 pm 3453.188 in reply to
3453.180 |
| |
I believe the Berlitz line has a separate product for
Latin American Spanish -- if you've evern hear the difference between
classical Spanish, Castiliian, and what is spoken to the south of us,
you'll appreciate the issue! |
| |
|
| From: 99REDWINGSE (RDICKERSON2) 12/8/2002 3:39 am
3453.195 in reply to 3453.188 |
| |
Yes, Many people that learn the book SPANISH, will find
it difficult at times to even grasp 1 or 2 of 5 words per sentence in
actual speech. We used to have to listen to actual recordings of people
talking, and have questions on a test to see what our coprehension was.
Some of it has to do with the slang, and some of it has to be with the
pronunciation, and some of it has to do with the SPEED of how people
cram so much in one breath.....
The one month I spent with a real family was an eye opener that no book
could prepare you for. I wouldnt care if I got an F on a real exam, as
long as I could make myself seem natural in the real environment... Your
demeanor and understanding of the customs is worth more than poor
speech.
They love to haggle, but dont insult. Be courteous, afterall, they work
hard for very little all year. |
| |
|
| From: chfnelson 12/9/2002 12:59 am 3453.212 in reply to
3453.1 |
| |
I have had an idea which I think should be
considered.
Considering the number of people who are talking about this trip, might
we think of having a chase vehicle? I know it would be expensive to have
a van trail us. I also think of things like tires and spare parts that
could be carried in one. Considering the mileage people have talked
about for tires on the KLR (4-6K miles), it will be possible to wear out
several sets along the trek. In the US, this would not be a problem. I
just wonder how difficult it will be to get tires south of the border,
especially the type/brand desired by the rider.
Cost of the chase vehicle can be apportioned among the riders, with the
driver(s) paying at least half. After all, they will be getting the
vacation of a lifetime along with the rest of us.
If fuel injected bikes are taken, spare pumps, injectors, electronics,
etc. will be needed. It would also be able to carry gas, to extend
range. Luggage, sleeping gear, and many other things might fit.
I realize that some 'purists' might think this is blasphemy. I think
that if I am going to attempt a ride of this magnitude, I for one want
an ace in the hole. |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 12/9/2002 2:00 am 3453.214 in reply to
3453.212 |
| |
I was thinking along the lines of having
consumables (tires, etc) shipped to brokers in appropriate locations
along the way. I was thinking of selecting local brokers based on
recommendations from the (nearest US or Canadian) embassy or consulate
in the area, and ship them in as "for temporary importation - to be
exported" because by the time they wore out we would be in another
country.
Similarly, I had thought of having a Fed-Ex or DHL World Courier drop
system for spares and repairs, with designated ship-to points along the
way, and much the same arrangements re Customs.
There is a major complication for a chase vehicle when we get to the
Darien - shipping a vehicle there will be very expensive, and will
likely be limited to ship instead of air.
It might be worthwhile to have a chaser as far as the Canal Zone (if
someone is willing), and then go it alone from there... |
| |
|
| From: Bill Wight (wight6) 12/9/2002 11:53 am 3453.222 in
reply to 3453.220 |
| |
I think you guys need to get a little further outside
the box. If 20 people are going for it with KLR 650's, wouldn't it be a
good idea to discuss the trip with Kawasaki. They might be able to help
with parts, tires and mechanical ability. Heck, they might send along a
journalist and kick in a few bucks. It looks to me like with this crew
of obviously talented, knowledgeable, ambitious, experienced and crazy
people it could be a real advertising boon for Kawasaki. |
| |
|
| From: AlbinoRhino (OrionRider) 12/9/2002 12:57 pm
3453.224 in reply to 3453.223 |
| |
"I would also not wait till the last minute before
the tour to get one. You want to get to know the bike from a handling
and maintenance perspective."
Alex makes a very good point here. Do you really want to start this
journey on an unproven machine? Not I… ;)
"High tech bikes? Do you really want a fuel pump, injectors, a computer,
etc running your bike? I know I'm going to get the usual line, "see, I
made it there and back without a failure". Well great! The point is, it
can fail so why bother with complexity."
The answer is an emphatic NO. I prefer carbs and analog instruments.
It’s a toss up between chain- and shaft-drive. Both are reliable, but
parts for chain-drive would be easier to get/fabricate.
"Considering the number of people who are talking about this trip, might
we think of having a chase vehicle? I know it would be expensive to have
a van trail us. …I realize that some 'purists' might think this is
blasphemy. I think that if I am going to attempt a ride of this
magnitude, I for one want an ace in the hole."
I had not thought of this, but like the idea of the support. However, as
mentioned, it would be an added expense to an already costly venture. If
this does come about, I recommend a rugged vehicle, i.e., a true hummer
or land rover—not one manufactured for the soccer moms (no offense is
intended). Also, the cost of transport around the Darien Gap adds to the
financial consideration. But hey, at this point we are brainstorming;
let’s not discount anything.
"I was thinking along the lines of having consumables (tires, etc)
shipped to brokers in appropriate locations along the way. I was
thinking of selecting local brokers based on recommendations from the
(nearest US or Canadian) embassy or consulate in the area, and ship them
in as "for temporary importation - to be exported" because by the time
they wore out we would be in another country.
Similarly, I had thought of having a Fed-Ex or DHL World Courier drop
system for spares and repairs, with designated ship-to points along the
way, and much the same arrangements re Customs."
Good ideas. A possible source of basic information for procedures would
be the freight forwarding companies, such as the ones on the U.S. /
Mexico border.
My limited experience with embassies and consulates is to NOT expect any
help from them. But it won’t hurt to try… :)
It was suggested early in this thread that one possibility would be to
buy a bike, ride it, and leave it in S.A. Don’t think that will be cost
effective. To avoid import duties (and the process), we will have to
have a “Carnet de Passages en Douane,” available only through the
Canadian Automobile Association for us Norte Americanos. See
http://www.caa.ca/e/travel/id/index.shtml Without this
document we will be required to pay import duties for each country we
travel, and it can be up to 600% of the value of the bike for each
country.
Also, check out
www.lonelyplanet.com Good travel info. |
| |
|
| From: Global Rider (GlobalRider) 12/9/2002 6:32 pm
3453.230 in reply to 3453.211 |
| |
Anyone have any tips on the best bug repellent out
there. From what I've heard, I think I'm going to need it. |
| |
|
| From: AlbinoRhino (OrionRider) 12/9/2002 6:49 pm
3453.234 in reply to 3453.230 |
| |
"Anyone have any tips on the best bug repellent out
there. From what I've heard, I think I'm going to need it."
One of the Embassy web sites recommended an insect repellant with at
least 30% DEET. And Mosquito netting for sleeping. |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 12/9/2002 9:50 pm 3453.245 in reply to
3453.230 |
| |
As all us Candians can attest (you too!) so far there's
nothing better than DEET.
Deep Woods Off, Muskol, you name it -- they're all DEET-based. The
closer to 100% the better, but DEET needs a certain amount of other
liquid mixed in just to be able to smear properly on your skin. So the
heavy duty stuff is usually in the 90-98% area. |
| |
|
| From: AlbinoRhino (OrionRider) 12/10/2002 5:56 am
3453.251 in reply to 3453.244 |
| |
<<Away from home, you have to deal with the
different driving practices of the natives, road signs, etc.>>
I'm reading Werner's book, and have already absorbed the fact of the
lack of road signs south of the border...lol. The necessity of asking
directions reinforces my decision to become as fluent in the language as
possible. GPS will also be a big help, assuming the base map has
sufficient detail of the major roadways.
Also, there is a tire sealer product called Ride-on TPS (tire protection
system) at www.ride-on.com
They offer a formula for tube and tubeless tires, and I have used the
tubeless formula with good success--no punctures yet to test the
product, but it is tire friendly. |
| |
|
From: RalphWiens 12/10/2002 9:29 am 3453.253 in reply to
3453.252
|
| |
I've never traveled any of these areas so am only
assuming that the Alaska part needs to be in the June-August time frame,
it appears for most of the south america trip the best time is Feb-April
time frame. Since I prefer not to ride in ice and snow, I'll assume that
we will be leaving in the summer months and have to make do with the
hotter weather in the southern hemisphere |
| |
|
| From: 99REDWINGSE (RDICKERSON2) 12/11/2002 1:44 am
3453.271 in reply to 3453.267 |
| |
I am sharing an email I sent to
www.striking-viking.com and
his reply. It was basically about sponsorship, and equipment, and his
trip. He replied quickly, and is always very forthright in his
writing... It is not powder coated, and always to the point. I hope you
all enjoy his comments, and his website, and his journal of his similar
trip.
Thirty grand above and beyond the normal $75 per day travel expenses. I
had to foot the bill for several of my friends to spend nearly a month
searching for me in Colombia, travel, hotels, food and bribes but no
ransom was ever paid.
I only solicited sponsors that I was going to buy their products anyway
based on their reputation but some like Sony, were not sponsors but I
thought the readers needed to know how good the products are. These days
a number of companys e mail me asking that I try out their gear but no
agreement about what I say has been mentioned by anyone yet, only that I
wear their clothes or hats sometimes and send them photos of me using
their stuff.
I was not asking for donations as much a payment for a service I
provided that consumed on average four hours a day. It was an online
book/diary being published for free and if the reader got real enjoyment
from the day by day minute by minute accounting, 300 photographs and
120,000 words published, they could send in whatever they thought it was
worth. If it was worth nothing, send nothing BUT I at least wanted
comments on my work. Pretty simple deal for all the hoopla on that
board.
If I had problems with any sponsors gear, I would report it to them as
well as on my site. As yet this has not occurred although I do report to
the R&D depts of sponsors on my opinion on how to improve their
equipment. |
| |
|
| From:
PastaBurner 12/12/2002 11:10 pm 3453.286 in reply to 3453.281 |
| |
I have a good friend in the American Embassy in Chile.
I've also traveled a bit in Peru and may still have a contact there as
well (gotta look him up).
Unfortunately, those are probably two of the countries you'll need the
least amount of help in... |
| |
|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 12/27/2002 7:46 am 3453.302
in reply to 3453.301 |
| |
i like the idea of doing the SA 50CC from Rio to
wherever and retracing the original route home from there. might as well
do an iba ride while i'm down there. :)
i'm not sure of the optimal start date. i'm game for july. june is the
driest month from what i understand. i'm game for june too. heh heh. |
| |
|
| From: Lou (RhinoStar) 1/2/2003 12:09 pm 3453.344 in
reply to 3453.342 |
| |
Having been in Colombia and Chile, I can visualize what
much of the ride will be like. It's gonna be an absolute BLAST for all
of you! Getting around all the roadblocks (figurative AND literal) will
be minor annoyances...the rest of it will be the stuff of stories for a
lifetime!! You will meet some terrific people along the way.... Since
it's likely that you guys won't be posting online on a frequent basis as
you go, it would be good to setup some communication links back to the
US so we can keep families informed, the MTF family informed, and also
get help if needed. |
| |
|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) 1/2/2003 1:04 pm 3453.345
in reply to 3453.344 |
| |
i've received a few emails from ron ayres while he's
been on the road in south america so we should be able to post status
reports along the route. i haven't asked him how he's dialed in or where
he's gained access, but it's there. while i know we will be passing
through some 3rd-world areas, i don't think south america is as
3rd-world as a lot of us may think. |
| |
|
| From:
maxphotog 2/25/2003 4:25 am 3453.400 in reply to 3453.399 |
| |
Just a brief introduction: my girlfriend and myself
traveled two up on a ten year old Suzuki dr650 in Central America for
six months in 2001. Five and a half months to get to Panama City and two
weeks to get back to the states.
Just a couple of personal observations: don’t take anything you can’t
afford to lose. We had absolutely nothing stolen on the trip, but I
didn’t lose any sleep over the bike etc. If it got stolen, it wasn’t the
end of the world.
A 650 were the perfect size for us, powerful enough to carry the two of
us, and light enough to pick up.
Mexico to panama: not one person asked for insurance, and if you’re in a
situation where they’re asking for insurance, it’s too late any way.
All major cities in Central America offer pretty much what you can get
in the states.
The more Spanish you have, the better it is, but you can survive with
out any. However your trip will be much more rewarding the more Spanish
you have.
The only bike prep I did before leaving the states was oil/filter
change, new tires, new sprockets and a new chain. Upon arriving in
Panama we got a new chain and a new set of tires. On our way back up we
got a complete service in Guatemala a city.
Time wise, I think your estimates are completely unrealistic. I thought
we would be out of Mexico in two weeks… it took us two months! What is
the point of racing through countries without seeing them? On the two
weeks coming back we saw nothing!
Finally make sure you do this trip, it will keep you in stories for the
rest of your life!
Maxwell Gardiner |
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|
| From: AlbinoRhino (OrionRider) 2/25/2003 6:00 am
3453.401 in reply to 3453.400 |
| |
Thanks for the insight on your experience. You have a
point about the peace of mind if something is stolen, if it isn't too
valuable.
<<Time wise, I think your estimates are completely unrealistic.>>
If this were a 100% take-it-as-it-comes touring adventure, I would
agree. However, the goal of the ride has a specific start point and
destination. If my personal situation permits at the time, I will take a
more leisurely pace back from the ride's southern terminus. I plan to be
working a J-O-B and doubt that I can get more than a 3-month leave of
absence. I'll take it as it comes. |
| |
|
| From: AL2000 (1343) 4/1/2003 11:30 am 3453.422 in reply
to 3453.421 |
| |
Want to get your mouth watering?
http://www.ronayres.com/GuidedTours.htm
Be sure to check the Braziel to Ushuaia trip. What great pics. |
| |
|
| From: The Masked Avenger (AvengerA7) 4/14/2003 10:28 pm
3453.432 in reply to 3453.430 |
| |
and anyone else who's planning on doing this ride. Just
picked up Cycle World's Motorcycle Travel and Adventure magazine and
went immediately to the article titled.."The Myth of Machu Picchu" by
Beau Allen Pacheco......
I've long dreamed of seeing the place and it might be well worth your
time to read |
| |
|
| From:
PirateJohn (TeamConfuzed) 5/25/2003 2:19 pm 3453.463 in reply
to 3453.452 |
| |
Trust me, given a choice between going on a tour with
Alan or doing a Pancho Villa tour, you want to go with Alan ;)
Check out the How Not To Run A Motorcycle Tour pages at
http://members.aol.com/Warp12Sys/Page3.html |
| |
|
| From: Joe (The Iceman) (May125) 5/26/2003 1:10 pm
3453.476 in reply to 3453.474 |
| |
I use Global Star sat phones in my winter activity.
They're very user friendly. My own distributor is in Whitehorse Yukon
but I'm sure they're all over Canada. I recall seeing some leasing
options on their website.
www.globalstar.com |
| |
|
| From: AL2000 (1343) 6/1/2003 1:37 pm 3453.497 in reply
to 3453.496 |
| |
Here is an email from Hans Karlsson.
I made a solo trip from New Orleans to Ushuaia and a bit further south
to La Pataia where Route 3 ends
Bike: 2001 Gold Wing GL1800 (just about any bike can make it since I
traversed only 150 miles of gravel roads, by 2006 they may all be paved)
Total Odometer mileage: 10,972.
Riding days: 29.
Forced stop-over days: 3 (Puebla, Mexico w/severe laryngitis)
Voluntary stop-over days: 10 (1 with biker club in Jusitan, Mexico and 9
w/daughter in San Jose, Costa Rica)
Total number of countries traversed: 12 (Mexico, Guatemala, San
Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Colombia, Ecuador,
Peru, Chile and Argentina)
Forced stop-over days: 3 (Puebla, Mexico w/severe laryngitis)
Voluntary stop-over days: 10 (1 with biker club in Jusitan, Mexico and 9
w/daughter in San Jose, Costa Rica
Total number of days: 42
I have a lengthy day by day report of the trip (text and photos). If you
are interested I can put it all on a CD and mail it to you. I'll be glad
to answer specific questions if you have any. The best time to visit
Ushuaia is January thru March, summer down there, dead of Winter in
Alaska. I rode to Alaska in May 2001 but was not aiming for Prudhoe Bay
so the northern-most point I hit was the town of Tok before heading
south to Seward. |
| |
|
| From: PirateJohn (TeamConfuzed) 6/2/2003 12:27 pm
3453.500 in reply to 3453.497 |
| |
I was looking at my ten year old atlas over the weekend
and with the exception of Panama and the Darien Gap there appear to be
decent highways pretty much along the entire route, except at the
extreme end down there in Chile. Ironically, I was reading something in
the business news lately that Chile had improved their roads
tremendously in order to get goods to the airports and to fly
commodities to various trading partners.
Doesn't look to me like there's going to be that much sand and gravel,
except at the extreme north and south of the ride.
I rode down to Mazatlan on a BMW R1100GS in 1998 and the roads in Mexico
can be excellent. Mexico has an Interstate-quality system of toll roads
that is underused, mostly because they are pricey. But the road quality
is fine. You really only run into dirt and gravel roads in Mexico when
you get off the beaten path and then usually only for a few city blocks
or a few miles (the obvious exceptions being the Copper Canyon area and
parts of Baja where you might encounter quite a bit of dirt road). IMHO
the BMW GS bikes are pretty much the perfect bikes for the vast majority
of the miles that you'd roll up on a trip like this.
I was doing a bit of research on alternative bikes over the last few
weekends and one thing that put me off with the Kawasaki KLR's is that
there are a couple of owner's websites which say they are great bikes
but have about a 30,000 mile life expectancy. Compared to a big BMW GS
that's just getting broken in. Which is too bad, because the diesel
KLR's might be on the civilian market by the time this trip gets off the
ground and from what I've seen you can often scrounge diesel in places
where you cannot find gasoline, never mind the phenomonal mileage
between refueling stops that the diesel KLR's are supposed to get.
Other bikes to consider for a trip like this would seem to be the new
KTM 950 twins that are just being introduced in the USA and the BMW
F-650 series. Also to be considered, by the time this trip gets rolling
BMW should have the next generation of big GS on the market and that
promises to be a smaller, lighter, more nimble bike. |
| |
|
| From: ITSecurity 6/8/2003 4:31 pm 3453.519 in reply to
3453.516 |
| |
Keep an eye out for a set of poll questions in this
folder - unfortunately, Delphi makes all polls a new thread.
Dave (CHFNELSON) and I have put forward these questions to help give us
guidance in developing the recommended routes and alternatives we want
to put in front of you.
Since Delphi only allows one answer, the questions and answers may not
exactly fit what YOU want to tell us - feel free (as if I need to tell
you!) to let us know more specifically what your preferences are.
Following each question is a brief note that explains what we are
looking for in asking the question.
Dave and I look forward to your input and suggestions! |
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|
| From: wridersteve 6/17/2003 4:44 am 3453.534 in reply to
3453.527 |
| |
I was riding a '95 Virago 1100 equiped with fuel cell
and all the usual LD goodies. This bike was chosen over my Concours
because of height/weight (in case of tip over). This wasn't asked, but
it is 250+ miles from Coldfoot (last gas) to Deadhorse. There is
virtually nothing but breathtaking scenery like you only see in the
movies until you reach the Arctic Ocean. Be Prepared.
Speeds were all under 30 mph in deep, large, loose gravel on top of a
hard surface. The bike's front wheel just took a path of its own. The
bike slid sideways out from under me and down I went. First time I ended
up on my feet, standing, looking at the bike lying in the middle of the
road and wondering "WTF?!?!". Second time my left leg was trapped under
the leather(like) saddlebag. I got several big bruises from the
"cobbles" beneath my leg. Thank God it was a soft bag!! Broke off left
mirror. No other damage to me or bike. I pulled leg out and waited
(about an hour) for the next vehicle and hailed its driver to help me
pick up the bike. I was almost to Deadhorse and had ridden from Key
west. Totally exhausted, dead dog tired and weak.
Crash #3 on return home from Deadhorse, mile 73(?) I believe. Front tire
drifted/rolled sideways out of the tire track on the large (up to golf/
tennis ball size) cobbles. Bike headed toward a 30' embankment. I bailed
as it went over the edge. I was unscathed. Bike rolled down the
embankment, did a summersault and landed on fuel cell. Bent handle bar,
fenders, etc, etc, etc..... Bike trucked to Fairbanks for repairs. Rode
home to FL without a hitch.
Photos at
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/stevehunter917
A note on tires and road conditions:
I was on ME880 rear and, believe it or not, a Sheg Chen front tire.
That's all that was available at the bike shop in Fairbanks where I put
on new tires for the ride *up*. New rubber is thicker, more protection.
Knobby tires are NOT recommended for the Haul Road because they catch
the sharp rocks, crushed shale, and get punctured between the knobs too
easily. Street tires have much more rubber between sharp objects and a
blowout. Dual terrain tires would be somewhere in between I suppose. Dry
rubber is harder to puncture due to the friction against the sharp
object. The offending protruder easily slips right into wet rubber.
It'll be safer to ride the Haul Road if not raining. If it is raining,
the mud can be impasssable in places without waiting for it to drain
off/dry out a bit and the loose shale in the mud will be a greater
danger. I rode solo. One beauty of a group ride is that we can help each
other push bikes out of trouble spots. The bottom line of this point is
that without a spare tire, a puncture other than one that can be
repaired with a plug, means that you are out of the game. When we get to
details, we should include spare tires and boot-type internal patches as
parts to be taken along.
Any size bike *can* make it - depending on conditions at the time. When
I was planning my UCC ride (the IBA already uses this name for the Key
West to Deadhorse/Prudhoe Bay ride), I did a lot of talking with people
who had done it, gaining much useful info. Mike Kneebone was the first
IB member to do it and he rode a Venture (IIRC). Many have ridden
Harleys, Hondas, BMWs, of different sizes and many other large bikes.
One's success depends largely on the road condition at the time. As Dan
Cohen told me, the Haul Road is a "crap shoot". You never know what it
will be like - weather, road, traffic, anything. South of the Brooks
Range/Atigun Pass it may be sunny and warm and on the other side of the
pass there may be a storm or a blizzard - or just the reverse - in the
summer. It's a gamble.
I reached Deadhorse on June 6 and had little traffic to contend with. On
my return, the tourists had just started to arrive. The road may be two
lanes wide, but there is only one lane for travel and that's down the
middle. Bikes can choose the best tire track of the two and try to stay
in it. When you meet another vehicle, pullover and stop, let 'em pass.
If not, the gravel or whatever may get the best of you. From what I've
read in this discussion, South America may be a piece of cake compared
to what our first leg *may* be like. |
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|
| From: PastaBurner 6/17/2003 11:05 am 3453.539 in reply
to 3453.481 |
| |
The morbid details of these groups can be learned from
reading Robert Peyton's books "Dangerous Places" as well as his articles
in National Geographic Explorer. I just picked up DP5 over the week and
it's a great read, albeit, a bit disconcerting. After reading the book,
a low key bike like a camo green KLR650 sounds a lot better than a
flashy GS that's stamped $$ (BMW) on it's sides. ;)
His web forum has some good tidbits on how to travel safely, if you can
stomach wading through all the political and flame threads.
http://www.combackalive.com
>> the Black Flag Cafe is the forum. |
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|
| From: wridersteve 6/17/2003 10:00 pm 3453.542 in reply
to 3453.536 |
| |
I was putting some SA cities in my Yahoo weather list
today so I can keep up with changes and see what we night expect on the
ride in various parts of SA. It looked pretty good on both ends of this
ride. Deadhorse temp 30-38F, cloudy. Ushuaia temp 34-39F, cloudy, light
rain. I'll keep watching it periodically and track temps as the seasons
change. Didn't bother adding CA and northern SA as we know it will be
hot, hotter, hottest. |
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| From: wadewg 6/17/2003 10:16 pm 3453.544 in reply to
3453.532 |
| |
I plan on using her for parts and clean or worn out
things. I am sure she could assist others. She has access to Continental
Cargo shipping and they hit all the major and some minor cities in
Mexico, Central and South America. A reliable parts shuttle will be a
requirement for a successful journey. |
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|
| From:
MadMac (SoundCruiser) 6/21/2003 10:00 pm 3453.553 in reply to
3453.551 |
| |
If there is anything that I can do in the way of
research or dealing with vendors for pricing or anything else, just let
me know. I have experience in doing both and am unemployed and not in a
panic to get back to the grind. I'll be happy to help in any capacity
that I can. |
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| From: wridersteve 6/22/2003 6:44 pm 3453.556 in reply to
3453.554 |
| |
Weather -
Sunday, June 22
Ushuaia low 32 high 39F sunny with breeze
Deadhorse low 40 high 50F cloudy |
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| From: PastaBurner 6/26/2003 12:40 pm 3453.563 in reply
to 3453.562 |
| |
Just tossing this out as "general info" to be considered
in the selection of dates or for the preparation of traveling during
September.
From the US State Department website...
SAFETY AND SECURITY: The U.S. Government remains deeply concerned about
the security of Americans overseas. As a result of U.S. military actions
in response to the September 11 terrorist attacks, there is a potential
for retaliatory actions to be taken against U.S. citizens and interests
throughout the world by terrorists and those who harbor grievances
against the United States. The Department of State urges Americans to
review their circumstances carefully and to take all appropriate
measures to ensure their personal safety. Americans are urged to monitor
the local news and maintain contact with the nearest American Embassy or
Consulate. The Department will continue to develop information about
potential threats to Americans overseas and to share with them credible
threat information through its consular information program. Information
is available on the Internet at http://travel.state.gov .
Due to the presence of suspected terrorist organizations in the
Tri-Border Area (Argentina, Brazil, and Paraguay), activities related to
terrorism are a concern in the entire region. However, there are no
reports of credible threats directed against American interests in Chile
specifically. Traditionally, September 11-18 is an active period for
public demonstrations. Violent political, labor, or student protests can
occur at other times also, often near government buildings in Santiago
and Valparaiso or in the vicinity of major universities. Regardless of
when or where such assemblies occur, American citizens traveling or
residing in Chile are advised to take common-sense precautions and avoid
any large gatherings or any other event where crowds have congregated to
demonstrate or protest. |
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|
| From: stafford3327 9/9/2003 4:17 pm 3453.601 in reply to
3453.600 |
| |
I just received all the maps (from International Travel
Maps) for Mexico thru central America, up to and including Ecuador! As
someone pointed out most included a symbol for fuel stops. I have been
pouring over them, wow what a trip this will be!!!
Also received and am devouring the book "8 around the Americas on a
motorcycle" which was also on the recommended reading list.
Broke out the Berlitz tapes on Spanish. They have been in the closet for
a couple of years, but decided I had better get started, as I am a slow
learner!
Still need to order maps for the GPS.
Now I am ready to begin highlighting the route(s)! |
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| From: PirateJohn (TeamConfuzed) 9/10/2003 12:54 pm
3453.611 in reply to 3453.16 |
| |
I've made a few trips into Mexico and it's amazing how
far you can get with just a few words of rudimentary Spanish. So I'd
definitely try to learn some Spanish (I get the Word of the Day here at
the office) but don't sweat it too much.
One bit of advice that I would give is to learn the road signs.
Sanborn's Insurance sells a book that has a page or two on Mexican road
signs (remember, the signs will likely vary from country to country!).
One revelation that I had on a really crappy Pancho Villa tour was
realizing that our 'ace' tour guide who was bragging about his abilites
in Spanish either couldn't read or didn't see all those signs as he
buzzed along at a stead 65mph.
And FWIW "peligro" means "danger" (a common sign)and something along the
lines of "grava fresca" means "fresh gravel," which turned out to be
about ankle deep and cars were slowing to a crawl to get through it.
Ignorance is bliss ;) |
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| From: bigtexrider 9/11/2003 8:56 am 3453.614 in reply to
3453.611 |
| |
The one I always really watch for is the sign that says
Topes. It their version of the speed bump, they are usually camouflaged. |
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| From: PirateJohn (TeamConfuzed) 9/11/2003 9:23 am
3453.615 in reply to 3453.614 |
| |
<<The one I always really watch for is the sign that says Topes. It
their version of the speed bump, they are usually camouflaged. <G> >>
Speed bump from Hell ;)
Oh yes. Excellent point. And that's why it's a good idea to familiarize
yourself with a guide to the signs because there's a symbol for the
topes and it's not always spelled out.
Of course, the other way to recognize the topes is when you see lots of
car parts (exhaust systems, nuts, bolts, loose body parts) strewn around
both sides of the road in the middle of nothing. Then you can safely
assume that there's a set of topes ahead that unsuspecting folks were
running over at high speed ;)
You see those suckers in some of the strangest places. They are
effective, but it's not a good idea to be riding fast without constantly
looking at the road ahead of you. |
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| From: PirateJohn (TeamConfuzed) 9/22/2003 11:23 am
3453.641 in reply to 3453.640 |
| |
<< Did the Worldmap add significantly more detail in
central and south America than was already available on the Garmin unit?
>>
I think that Worldmap sort of falls into the category of "only game
in town" ;)
I can only speak from firsthand experience on some of the roads in
Mexico. I bought my copy of Mapsource after I got back from my recent
Moterrey trip and it would have helped by showing more roads than the
standard base map. However, a weakness of a lot of maps of Mexico,
printed or otherwise, is that they often don't show the toll roads or
they get the toll roads and the free roads confuzed. I notice that
Mapsource still manages to screw up Rt. 85 going from Nuevo Laredo to
Monterrey, and Rt. 15 running down to Mazatlan, both of which have toll
roads that roughly parallel the old roads.
Another irritation of the base map in a GPS III or III Plus is that the
maps aren't as accurate as they are in the USA. In Matamoros I wanted to
connect with Rt. 2 and the base map was off by about 2 blocks, which can
be irritating. Several years ago my GPS was insisting that, even though
I was parked in a parking lot at a hotel, that we had to be about 50 ft.
into the Pacific.
You have to laugh, because I've seen some Mexican maps that had the same
flaws but they would often show roads that were unknown to the American
map makers.
Also, as another datapoint, I was in a truck stop in Gawja (you know,
the state north of Floriduh ;) yesterday and was checking out the new
Motor Carriers Atlas. I noticed that their 2 pages devoted to Mexico
seemed to reflect the toll (Quota) and free (Libre) roadway situation
accurately in the places that I was familiar with. |
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| From: ITSecurity 9/22/2003 11:38 am 3453.642 in reply to
3453.641 |
| |
I think that Worldmap sort of falls into the category of
"only game in town" ;)
Only as far as the Garmin is concerned. For Magellan users, a new piece
of software (actually released last spring) provides enhanced and
extended basemaps for the world; see
http://www.magellangps.com/en/products/product.asp?PRODID=182
for details. |
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|
| From:
LDRyder 10/21/2003 7:28 pm 3453.646 in reply to 3453.1 |
| |
I just checked the web site for the tip. WOW, 39
potential riders?
http://www.bsu.edu/web/00amleduc/mtf/2006AATour/index.htm
I was thinking that a half dozen or less was a good number.
I would love to do this trip, but I think that is way too many. Of
course, not everyone on this list will end up going, but even if 1/3 of
the riders go (13), that would be too many. What do others on the list
think? |
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| From: chfnelson 10/21/2003 9:39 pm 3453.647 in reply to
3453.646 |
| |
Have to disagree with you.
This would be the tour of a lifetime for the riders. And I believe that
there is strength in numbers. The planning to date has been for a large
group. I have always thought there would be around 20 riders.
There are going to be many areas of difficulty, especially on the Haul
Road. If anyone has a problem, there will be plenty of hands to help.
Planning has included trying to standardize on no more than three or
four bike models to eaze repair issues. Parts can be parceled among the
riders. Mass knowledge and skills could solve many problems. A large
group can many times get better rates.
Tony and I have discussed the side trips than can be made along the way.
I am sure that small groups will want to split off to see some sites
along the way that the main group would not. And some groups will want
to travel roads others will shy away from.
There is something for everyone on the trip. That is one reason there is
so much interest. |
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|
| From: ITSecurity 10/21/2003 10:20 pm 3453.648 in reply
to 3453.646 |
| |
Like Dave said - this is a arge community formed of many
small groups.
The overall ride will likely be done in groups of 3 or 4 - with everyone
getting together in the evening, or at border crossings. That way people
can ride with others of similar interests, or similar riding styles, and
not feel pressured. The pace will be such that those who want to spend a
little "beach time" can run ahead that day, and have a good part of the
afternoon to sightsee and relax - or do the same in reverse. Once we hit
the Guatemalan border, we are basing our speed estimates on 500 km (300
miles) a day average, not counting rest days.
If you want to do the trip in a small group, you can - but you'll see
the rest of us when you pull up for supper! |
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| From: jdpfms 10/22/2003 5:57 pm 3453.649 in reply to
3453.646 |
| |
I also like to do rides alone. I like people, don't get
me wrong, but I do like to stop when I want to and start when I want to.
Wondering what other people want to do or not do is one thing I'd just
as soon not do. However, like most MTF rides, you can ride your own ride
by yourself or with one or two others and just meet up at specific
checkpoints etc. Having others ahead or behind you might be a good thing
in case of physical or mechanical problems. Just a thought. I doubt I
can do this ride due to the time needed, but I think many will have a
great time. |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) 10/23/2003 12:23 am 3453.650 in
reply to 3453.646 |
| |
We will not be riding in a group of 35. I envision
riding in small groups of 3-5 organized by type of bike and rider type
and skills. We will then meet up on a predetermined schedule to check
in.
I don't see any number as being an issue. |
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|
| From: qu2r 11/6/2003 10:48 am 3453.678 in reply to
3453.677 |
| |
Seemed the best thread to post in since y'all'l be
trekking a similar path.
http://blogs.motorbiker.org/mikewerner/Blog.nsf
this was the link forwarded to me (scroll to 31 Oct for the record
breakers)
http://www.globebusters.com/index1.html
their site including the record-breaking Prudhoe Bay-Ushuaia trip in
35days, 30 min, 27 sec.
http://www.globebusters.com/challenges/transam/
Single pilot, 2-up, even broke car record with rotating drivers. |
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| Dtop1 11/8/2003 1:06 pm 3453.700 in reply to 3453.693 |
| |
Returned a few days ago from the first "rally" in Creel,
Chihuahua of Horizons Unlimited -
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/index.shtml
About 50 bikes showed up including some with riders heading to the tip
of SA. There was one couple from Wisconsin on an '86 Honda GL1200 going
as far as Panama. One couple on matching KLR 650's was going all the way
south having bought the bikes in BC then ridden to Prudhoe Bay. The
rally had a lot of good info from BTDT (BEEN THERE, DONE THAT)riders
plus an excellent slide presentation on world travel preps. &
requirements.
There will be a rally in Revelstoke the first w/e in Sept next year,
possibly one on the US east coast next summer and another in Creel, Chih.
mid Oct of next year. Anyone planning the big ride could gain a lot by
attending one of the get-togethers (Alan - Creel, Chih. on the KLR would
be a great break-in!)
One thing that I picked up about KLR's is that parts and service are
hard to find in South America. A recommended bike is the older model BMW
F650, the Funduro. They are common and there are parts available. This
from a friend who had a m/c shop in Columbia until recently and another
who still has a Funduro in Argentina that he uses a few times a year.
They are cheap, even fully equipped with panniers, etc. So no big loss
if it had to be abandoned during the trip for whatever reason. |
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| From: chfnelson 4/8/2004 11:58 am 3453.713 in reply to
3453.712 |
| |
While vacationing in Ushuaia (oss-WHY-ya), folks with
interests in Biology might be interested in a 'young' lady from Ohio who
lives just a couple hours out of town.
http://www.acatushun.com/eng-natalie.htm
By MARJAN GROOTHUIS
FOR THE HERALD
While in Ushuaia a visit to estancia Harberton is almost a must. It can
be reached via boat but as this takes almost the whole day, most people
prefer to drive. The road, 85 kilometres to the estancia and continuing
for another 50, was only built in the late 70s. The reason was a dispute
with Chile over three uninhabited and barren islands at the eastern end
of the Beagle channel and the military government wanted to have better
access to that area. However, it is a good road, the trip is scenic and
an opportunity to see some more of the landscapes of Tierra del Fuego.
The estancia, the first in that part of the country and very much
connected with its history, was built in 1887 with materials brought
from England. The white buildings with their red roofs are located on a
narrow peninsula overlooking the Beagle channel. Actually, the view from
the other side of the hill is much better but the Yámana, a native
tribe, had recommended against it because of the prevailing winds.
The land, 20,000 hectares, was donated to Thomas Bridges by Argentine
President Julio A. Roca for his humanitarian work and his help in
rescuing victims from shipwrecks. Bridges, an orphan who got his surname
because he was found on a bridge and his first name because he was
wearing a shirt with the letter T embroidered on it, came to Argentina
as the adoptive child of a family of Anglican missionaries. After a
couple of years they went back, but Bridges stayed behind to take care
of the mission. As he was only 19 and not ordained, he had to return to
England to finish his studies. In 1869 he married Mary Varder, a woman
of Dutch descent born in the Devonshire village of Harberton, and two
days after taking their wedding vows they set sail for Argentina.
Apart from setting up and running an estancia, being a reverend and his
work with the natives, many of whom later on sought refuge there,
Bridges published the dictionary Yámana–English with over 30,000
entries. Despite his efforts, ‘civilization’ wiped out the Yámana, the
fierce Selk’nam hunters and the Mannekenk, as sure as the deadliest
epidemic. Now, Bridges’ dictionary is basically all that is left of a
language of which today only a very limited version is spoken by a few
descendants in the town of Puerto Williams, Ushuaia’s southerly
neighbour, in Chile. Another classic about these now extinct tribes is
the book ‘Uttermost part of the earth’ written by Lucas Bridges, one of
the sons of Thomas and Mary. Reverend Bridges died during a trip to
Buenos Aires in 1898 at the age of 56 and is buried in the Recoleta
cemetery, whereas his widow went back to England in 1912 and passed away
there ten years later
Nowadays, the estancia is owned by Tommy Goodall, a great-grandson of
Bridges, and dedicates itself mainly to tourism. In the old days sheep
farming provided the earnings but harsh winters decimated the herds and
when the Argentine Navy started charging for the transport of the wool
to the port of Ushuaia other sources of income had to be found. A
shearing shed and some old machines are silent reminders of these past
times as is the hut for some old boats. Of the main building, only the
teahouse where delicious cakes are being served and the garden, which is
studded with gorgeous lupines in an amazing variety of colours, can be
visited. During a guided tour the vegetable gardens where, amongst
others strawberries and rhubarb are growing, and the family cemetery
amid a botanical garden with native trees like lenga and guindo are
being shown as well. Here some typical dwellings of the Yamaná have been
reconstructed according to traditional building techniques. Although
only made of branches, they have been keeping up for ten years now
despite the fierce winds and the climate in general.
A new addition to the estancia is the recently inaugurated marine mammal
museum. Natalie Goodall, the wife of the owner and a marine biologist,
dedicated many years and a lot of time to it. Skeletons of a variety of
the region’s marine mammals are carefully displayed against a blue
background representing the sea. At the same time the animal is painted
life-size against the wall to make it more real, educational and
appealing to the visitor. Stranded animals, most of them found dead in
the Bay of San Sebastián, some 250 kilometres to the north, are brought
to the museum and carefully cleaned. Skin and flesh are removed and
every bone is taken apart, numbered and then put together again.
Skeletons of dolphins, seals and whales including the rather rare false
killer whale make up the collection. Photographs, an additional
selection of bones and teeth complete this interesting display. Estancia
Harberton can be visited from November till April (guided tour only). |
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| From: LDRyder 4/11/2004 11:42 am 3453.714 in reply to
3453.713 |
| |
Whatever you do, don't let your spouses read the
following page:
http://motovistafilms.com/ |
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|
| From: rydnfool Aug-6 10:43 am 3453.723 in reply to
3453.703 |
| |
I have friends that have lived in the jungles of the
Darien for many,many years. I'm trying to track them down for some local
advise. If I manage to do so I'll let you know their suggestions and/or
warnings. |
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|
| From: Forkless_D Oct-4 8:43 pm 3453.737 in reply to
3453.736 |
| |
I just stumbled accross this website with some great
maps of Costa Rica that I thought you guys might find interesting.
http://www.maptak.com/index.html |
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|
| From: Forkless_D Oct-24 6:20 pm 3453.738 in reply to
3453.737 |
| |
I recently heard from a friend who attended a Horizons
Unlimited gathering (round-the-world type riders) about an emergency
medical service that some of the riders have had to use and swear by it.
It's called Medjet (
http://www.medjetassistance.com/ ) and they basically will fly you -
in a fully equiped and staffed medical jet - out of anywhere to the
hospital of your choice if you get hurt. I haven't read too many of the
details yet, but did see that there is a group rate available and
thought I'd put it out there to see if anyone is interested in something
like this. I have heard about the hospitals in Mexico and they give me
the heebee-geebees. |
| |
|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) Oct-24 6:30 pm 3453.739 in
reply to 3453.738 |
| |
i haven't been following this thread too closely, but
i'd certainly be interested in learning more about the medjet service -
coverage areas, rates, etc. i went to
www.medjet.com and finally got redirected to:
http://www.airambulancecard.com /
is this the same outfit? doesn't seem like a bad investment to make -
especially if you need it. i didn't read anything in detail, but the
"worldwide coverage" caught my eye. |
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|
| From: jdpfms Oct-24 11:29 pm 3453.742 in reply to
3453.740 |
| |
I've had the Traverlers emergency network coverage in
the past since we travel in Russia and some parts of the world that
doesn't have very good care. It is based out of Durham, NC and Duke I
believe. There are a couple of things to consider depending on where one
is in the world if a medical emergency happens. The main thing is being
able to get to a quality health facility for care. That could involve
being flown to the USA, but in a real emergency, whatever is closer is
better. It's not always possible to have your cake and eat it too but
whichever one is decided upon by each individual, look into what is
offered and tailor it to the needs you may envision.
For the Americas ride and for what each person is going to spend for it,
I think some type of medical evacuation and or transport to the closest
qualified facility would be money well spent. Also, if you do have this
coverage, you'll never need it, but if you don't you will (my personal
motto for insurance, LOL).
Of course, on the recent UCC ride, I had all this medical equipment with
me in case anyone got hurt etc, and I was the only one who got hurt. Go
figure. |
| From: Forkless_D Oct-4 8:43 pm 3453.737 in reply to
3453.736 |
| |
I just stumbled accross this website with some great
maps of Costa Rica that I thought you guys might find interesting.
http://www.maptak.com/index.html |
| |
|
| From: Forkless_D Oct-24 6:20 pm 3453.738 in reply to
3453.737 |
| |
I recently heard from a friend who attended a Horizons
Unlimited gathering (round-the-world type riders) about an emergency
medical service that some of the riders have had to use and swear by it.
It's called Medjet (
http://www.medjetassistance.com/ ) and they basically will fly you -
in a fully equiped and staffed medical jet - out of anywhere to the
hospital of your choice if you get hurt. I haven't read too many of the
details yet, but did see that there is a group rate available and
thought I'd put it out there to see if anyone is interested in something
like this. I have heard about the hospitals in Mexico and they give me
the heebee-geebees. |
| |
|
| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) Oct-24 6:30 pm 3453.739 in
reply to 3453.738 |
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i haven't been following this thread too closely, but
i'd certainly be interested in learning more about the medjet service -
coverage areas, rates, etc. i went to
www.medjet.com and finally got redirected to:
http://www.airambulancecard.com /
is this the same outfit? doesn't seem like a bad investment to make -
especially if you need it. i didn't read anything in detail, but the
"worldwide coverage" caught my eye. |
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| From: jdpfms Oct-24 11:29 pm 3453.742 in reply to
3453.740 |
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I've had the Traverlers emergency network coverage in
the past since we travel in Russia and some parts of the world that
doesn't have very good care. It is based out of Durham, NC and Duke I
believe. There are a couple of things to consider depending on where one
is in the world if a medical emergency happens. The main thing is being
able to get to a quality health facility for care. That could involve
being flown to the USA, but in a real emergency, whatever is closer is
better. It's not always possible to have your cake and eat it too but
whichever one is decided upon by each individual, look into what is
offered and tailor it to the needs you may envision.
For the Americas ride and for what each person is going to spend for it,
I think some type of medical evacuation and or transport to the closest
qualified facility would be money well spent. Also, if you do have this
coverage, you'll never need it, but if you don't you will (my personal
motto for insurance, LOL).
Of course, on the recent UCC ride, I had all this medical equipment with
me in case anyone got hurt etc, and I was the only one who got hurt. Go
figure. |
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| From: Dtop1 1/4/2003 10:08 pm 3453.348 in reply to
3453.347 |
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Here's the first part w/o fotos.
San Diego - Guatemala
Day 3, it had been very cold during the night and we’d chipped ice off
the bikes before packing our stuff on them that morning. There was so
little traffic on the road that, when it warmed, Bruce Rogers stripped
off his riding gear and thermal underwear standing by the side of the
road. Fortunately no one came by to view the horror of an old fireman
standing there in his skivvies! By late afternoon Bruce and I were
exhausted and our hands were cramping from the thousands of curves we
had ridden since morning. The town of Guachochi, Chihuahua was just
ahead: not our planned stop for the night but I’d misjudged the time it
would take to ride this part of our route because of the curves. The
next town was still hours away and darkness was near so it would have to
do.
We were riding through the Copper Canyon (Barranca del Cobre) on a 30
day r/t to Guatemala. The road we were on had been paved for less than a
year and was taking us through one of the most spectacular areas of
Mexico - a vast complex of canyons, rivers and mountains inhabited by
the reclusive, cave dwelling Tarahumara Indians. The next day showed the
wisdom of the decision to stop in Guachochi for the night; the road from
there to Hidalgo del Parral was a motorcyclists dream with more curves
than Baywatch, good sight lines, a clean road surface and only the
occasional vehicle in either direction.
Bruce and I left his house in La Mesa Nov.1st, drove east and crossed
into Mexico just south of Yuma at San Luis Rio Colorado riding 500+
miles the first day. We had taken care of the necessary paperwork for us
and the bikes a few weeks earlier in Tecate so we breezed through
Mexican Customs and Immigration. Bruce was riding his 1995 R1100GS and I
my 2000 R1150GS. He and I have taken a number of long trips together and
I knew I had a reliable, congenial riding partner for this adventure. By
the time we finish this trip we will have ridden a total of more than
15K miles together.
There are three factors for successful long distance, motorcycle travel.
Planning and preparation are the first two. Equally important to those
two is having the right riding partner(s). Even though Bruce and I could
not be more different in personality he is for me the best of riding
partners.
Our route down took us diagonally across northern Mexico crossing a
number of mountain ranges until we touched the Gulf of Mexico south of
Tampico. From there we skirted the Gulf coast past Veracruz to
Villahermosa, Tabasco then climbed back into the mountains of Chiapas
before crossing the border into Guatemala.
On day two we climbed out the warm, coastal plain at Hermosillo into the
cold and sparsely inhabited mountains of Chihuahua. We passed one gas
station at the 100 mile mark but I knew there was another farther along
the road. When we got to the station in the remote town of Yécora there
was a line of vehicles at the pumps - no gas and no idea when there
would be. The gain in elevation and the thousands of curves we’d just
ridden had emptied my tank (Bruce’s tank has a gallon more capacity than
mine). Supposedly someone sold gas out of barrels about 20 miles farther
on so I nursed my bike the distance, coasting down hills and being very
light on the throttle. Fortunately the report was right and we were
happy to pay $30 for 10 gals.
After the mountains and canyons of Chihuahua we crossed hundreds of
miles of high desert on our way to the mining town of Real de Catorce,
SLP. Just before getting there we had one of our most nerve wracking
rides. We had been riding for miles on a remote road with no traffic or
settlements when we came upon a freshly oiled section of road. A truck
had just covered the entire surface with used motor oil in preparation
for spreading gravel. The oil was in pools in many spots and we had
nowhere else we could go. There was no shoulder and the desert on either
side was very soft from recent rains so we had to stay on the road. Very
slowly we made our way across a couple of miles of oil. We could not
even stop because it was so slippery we had no traction under our feet
to hold the bikes up. We made it, but covered in sweat.
Right after that we were on 20 miles of stone road climbing to a silver
mine through which we rode to enter the town of Real de Catorce which is
at 9000 ft elevation. We lowered the air pressure in our tires, kept our
speed up on the stone road and made it with only the loss of a couple of
light bulbs. We waited at the entrance to the Ogarrio Mine for traffic
to clear then rode 2.5 kms through the mine shaft to town. Because it
had rained heavily a few days earlier the roof of the mine poured water
on us in a number of places. We spent the night in town then left
through the mine, which is supposed to be one way. But, because we were
riding bikes and unbeknownst to us, they allowed oncoming traffic
through the mine at the same time we were in it. What a surprise to see
headlights coming at us. We pulled over at a wide spot and the traffic
went by without problem.
From there we dropped in elevation over the next few days with
temperatures and humidity both rising. We skirted the Gulf of Mexico on
a good, 2-lane road with the sea on one side and tropical vegetation on
the other. Just before Villahermosa we were on a 4-lane, toll road when
I hit a huge pothole at about 75 MPH. I stood on the pegs and pulled
back on the bars just as I hit it but the front rim bent anyway.
Fortunately the tire held air and I didn’t go down. Later we borrowed a
sledge hammer and steel rod and Bruce did his best to straighten the
rim. After retightening the spokes I had no problems with the wheel
other than a slight vibration at certain speeds for the remaining 4000+
miles of the trip.
Bruce had earlier suffered some damage to his bike. His front suspension
bottomed out on a couple of bad bumps and the light bar for his driving
lights hit and shattered the top of the front fender. The damage was
mostly cosmetic and the fender survived the trip.
After Villahermosa we climbed into the troubled state of Chiapas on a
wonderful, curvy road through thick jungle. The only spoiler was the
hundred of topes (speed bumps) placed everywhere and mostly unmarked.
Anyone who wants a speed bump just builds one, at times in the middle of
nowhere. They come in all sizes and shapes and are a problem throughout
Mexico but we really came to hate them in Chiapas. Some small villages
had as many as 20.
After a very pleasant stay in a small cabin at a macadamia nut ranch
owned by an American couple near the town of Ocosingo we arrived at the
Mexico/Guatemala border. Mexico didn’t want to see any of our papers as
we were leaving so on day 12 and 3200 miles from home we crossed into
Guatemala. |
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| From: Dtop1 1/6/2003 12:26 am 3453.357 in reply to
3453.347 |
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Here's part 2 of the Guat. trip series of articles. Dan
Guatemala
The guard lifted the steel barrier and Bruce Rogers and I crossed the
border from Mexico into Guatemala. Customs and Immigration on the
Mexican side hadn’t looked at any of our papers leaving the country. I
had crossed this border eight times before and was a bit apprehensive
about what we’d find on the Guatemalan side because of one bad
experience I had crossing with a vehicle a few years ago.
First was Agriculture. The official wanted to spray the wheels and
underside of the bikes with insecticide. On every previous crossing I’d
been able to make a “development aid” contribution not to have the
vehicle sprayed. I tried all the code words I knew but things were now
different, the bike was sprayed, we paid the nominal fee for the
spraying and were given an official receipt. Next was Immigration. Our
passports were stamped and we were given 90 days. We paid the fee, not
one penny more, and were given a receipt. I was shocked. Next came
Customs (Aduana) for the temporary importation permits for the bikes.
There was a new, air conditioned building with computers and uniformed
agents, not the shack with only a manual typewriter that I remembered
from years past. The paperwork was completed in 15 minutes giving the
bikes 30 days in the country, we paid the fee at the bank next door and
were on our way without having paid anyone one penny more than the
reasonable, official fees.
Border towns are rarely pretty and La Mesilla, Guatemala was no
exception. We were glad to be on our way. Just as we cleared the edge of
the town it started to rain very hard. At first we welcomed the rain
because it washed the insecticide off the bikes. But the first 20 miles
of road at the border were some of the worst of the trip being heavily
potholed. The rain made matters worse because the potholes were now
filled with water so we couldn’t judge how deep they were. Those 20
miles were difficult riding but the road improved and the rain slacked
so we picked up the pace.
The Pan American highway goes through a spectacularly steep river canyon
at this point known as El Tapón (The Plug). The walls tower thousands of
feet above and are incredibly steep. In the early 16th century the Maya
held off the Spanish conquistadores for about a dozen years at this
place by holding the high ground and attacking the Spanish forces from
above. But, as steep as it is, we could see cultivated fields where the
contemporary Mayan farm them using techniques that are thousands of
years old.
I stopped at a place on the highway called Chimichi and paid the driver
of a 4WD pickup to deliver a letter to a priest friend who lives in a
pueblo in the mountains above. Even without the rain our heavy GS’s with
road tires and loaded with gear would not have been able to make the
incredibly steep climb to or return from the pueblo without being
dropped numerous times. The twisting road is made of talcum fine dirt
that turns into a slippery, gooey mess when wet.
We continued along the Pan Am Highway another 45 minutes and got a room
in the market town of Huehuetenango. Next morning at 8:30 we were back
on the road. Because of the altitude the temperature was in the 40’s and
it would stay cold the rest of the day. The highway climbs to 9000 ft
and there was a very windy, cold front passing through so part of the
day was spent with the heated grips on HIGH and our electric vests
plugged in. But the road made up for the cold. Long stretches had new
asphalt and great curves. The riding was very spirited and some of the
best of the trip. It was rough in places and some stretches had no
pavement at all but, overall it was surprisingly good. In Guatemala,
much more so than Mexico, the yellow line is not your friend. Oncoming
buses and trucks were often well across the line on the curves so we
quickly learned to carve a line that kept us far from the centerline.
Our destination was Antigua, a beautiful, colonial town nestled in a
mile high valley surrounded by 3 volcanoes, one of which is active
shooting steam, smoke and large rocks high into the air. About an hour
from Antigua a huge pile of corn stalks stepped into the road in front
of the bike. There was a person there but all that was visible was the
shock of stalks and two feet. I hit the horn and brakes at the same time
but the feet continued across the road. The bike went behind the feet
with the shock just inches from the bars. I never saw a person, just 2
feet and the corn stalks. That was the closest I came during the ride to
hitting someone.
We pulled up to the door leading to the parking area of my in-laws house
in Antigua, blew the horn and my wife Teresa let us in. We parked the
bikes and they stayed there for the week we were in Antigua. We were 13
days and 4000 miles from San Diego. My wife Teresa had flown to
Guatemala the day we left San Diego and Bruce’s friend, Kit, arrived
that evening.
There is a BMW dealer in Guatemala City, Bavaria Motors, so I went there
one day to get oil and filters for Bruce and me and for a guy named Rob
from San Francisco who was on his way to Panama on an R100GSPD. He was
studying Spanish for a week, I saw his bike and we talked for a while
over a beer. One interesting mod to his bike was a rack behind the rear
fender where he carried 2 spare tires.
After a pleasant week in Antigua we were ready to be riding again. The
morning we left Antigua the Guatemala motorcycle club was having its
weekly breakfast at a luxury hotel in town so we stopped to introduce
ourselves. There were at least 50 bikes in the hotel lot, mostly Beemers
and Ducatis. After leaving the hotel we headed for the Mexican border
about 6 hours away. As we neared the place on the Pan Am highway called
Chimichi where I had stopped to have a letter hand carried to my priest
friend in the mountains a week earlier, we saw a group of about 25 Mayan
Indians, mostly children, waiting for us. They had come down out of the
mountains to see me. As we rolled to a stop they swarmed over us and the
bikes and said we looked like space men with our helmets and riding
gear.
For the last 15 years I’ve had a project where friends pledge money to
send Mayan children to school, I select the kids, distribute the money
and check up on their progress. At any one time I have about 35 kids,
mostly girls, in school. The families are very poor and need the labor
of their children so most Indian girls do not attend school. I try to
get them at least through the sixth grade but some have finished high
school. The money pays for their school expenses and to reimburse the
families for the lost labor of the child.
Waiting for us were “my” kids, their families and my priest friend,
Padre Kevin. After talking and picture taking we said goodbye and rode a
few miles to where another group was waiting for me. After more talking
and pictures we made it to the border by 4PM. It took less than 15
minutes and we didn’t pay a cent to clear out of Guatemala. |
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| From: Dtop1 1/23/2003 11:28 am 3453.371 in reply to
3453.359 |
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Here's an article I've written for my local riding club
magazine with info about riding south of the border - mostly Mexico but
some applies in general to the trip being planned. Dan
South of the border logistics
Many club members have questions about riding south of the border. The
following attempts to answer some questions about paperwork, money,
riding conditions, health, etc.
Insurance: It’s a good idea to carry insurance on your bike for any trip
south of the border. It can be purchased by the day before crossing the
border or, for those who cross regularly, an annual policy may be
cheapest. There are two versions of the annual policy: one for all of
Mexico and a less expensive one for travel only in Baja or the northern
tier of border states. A one year, liability only policy for all of
Mexico costs me about $200 for my GS. Some companies, for an extra
premium, will also include property damage, towing, medical, legal, etc.
Tourist card: A tourist card is required for stays of 3 days or more or
for travel south of the border area. In mainland Mexico that means 15
miles south of the border. In Baja the distance has recently been
extended to San Quintín. A passport, voter registration card, or
original birth certificate are required to get the tourist card. It is
issued at the border and the fee, about $20, must be paid at a bank
within 3 days of getting the card.
Vehicle importation: Except for all of Baja, a vehicle traveling past
the border zone needs a temporary importation certificate from Mexican
Customs (Aduana). If the vehicle has a lien against it or is leased, a
letter stating that it is OK to take the vehicle into Mexico is needed
from the lien or lease holder. A tourist card is also a prerequisite.
Make copies of your tourist card, driver’s license, registration and the
letter (if applicable) and present them along with the originals to
Customs which will fill out a form to be taken to a bank, usually
located next to customs. About $20 will be charged to your credit card.
If you don’t have a credit card you will have to post a bond based on
the value of the vehicle. Customs will then issue a holographic sticker
good for 6 months, multiple entry. The temporary importation must be
cancelled at Customs within the six month period. If it is not cancelled
within the period, the bond will be forfeited or an equivalent charge
lodged against your credit card.
Health: Minor health problems can usually be taken care of at a
pharmacy. Prescriptions are not needed for many drugs, such as
antibiotics, as in the US. All but the smallest pueblos will have
doctors and larger cities usually have well equipped hospitals. Bruce
Rogers and I signed up with MedJet International, www.medjet.com, for
medical evacuation insurance developed in conjunction with BMWOA. If you
are seriously ill anyplace in the world they will evacuate you to a
hospital of your choice in the US. Plus, in the US, Mexico and Canada
they will also return your motorcycle to your home. Cost of this
insurance is $195/yr for an individual and $245 for a couple.
The fear of La Turista, also known as Montezuma’s Revenge, keeps many
people from enjoying the great food in Mexico. Bruce and I eat
everywhere on our trips in Mexico; street stands, markets stalls, very
simple restaurants and have yet to get sick. For those with delicate
stomachs, Pepto Bismol 3 times a day acts as a great prophylaxis to
prevent or minimize problems.
Money: ATM machines are available everywhere and give the best exchange
rate. Using an ATM card rather than a Debit Card is better because
additional fees are charged against the Debit Card. I also carry a few
hundred dollars for emergencies but rarely have had to exchange bills.
Banks may have very limited hours, another advantage to using an ATM
card because ATM machines are usually available 7/24.
Lodging & Parking: Most hotels and motels have secure parking but, if
not, will allow bikes to be parked in the lobby or in front of your room
if you can get them into the hotel. When hotel parking is not available
there usually are secure lots nearby. The lots are locked at night, may
have someone living in them or have dogs to guard them.
Many towns have “no-tell” motels on the edge of town where rooms rent by
the hour. They are best avoided. A telltale sign of this type of motel
is that it will be behind high walls with no clear view into the motel
and each room will have parking that hides the vehicle from the view of
other rooms.
Gasoline: Gasoline is expensive - at this writing about $2.55/gal for
Premium. Most stations are modern and the gas is clean and water free.
If Premium is not available, Magna Sin, 89 octane, works just fine.
Always make sure that the pump is zeroed before pumping and that you
count your change at the stations. Also be suspicious if, for no
apparent reason, you are directed to a different pump from the one at
which you stopped. The “special” pump may have magical, gas tank
expanding properties. It will pump more gas than the capacity of your
tank.
Roads: Mexican roads are surprisingly good for the most part. Toll roads
are very lightly traveled because they are so expensive - about $5 for
60 miles. A few hours on a toll road plus the expensive gas quickly adds
up. All major roads have Green Angel coverage. These are green trucks
driven by mechanics who provide free repairs, including gas, in case of
a breakdown. They usually cover their sector of the road twice a day so
you may have to wait a while.
Road signs can be confusing or nonexistent and routes through towns
often not well marked. It’s always a good idea to know the name of the
next large city on your route and follow the signs to it or ask for
directions to that town if there are no signs. Few people know route
numbers but they do know how to get to the next town. Policemen in towns
may be no help at all not even knowing street names or places just a few
blocks from where they are standing. I once was looking for a Chinese
restaurant and asked a policeman where it was. He assured me there were
no Chinese restaurants nearby. We were no more than 20 feet from the
door to the restaurant.
Security: There are military and police checkpoints throughout the
country. Their purpose is to interdict contraband - drugs and arms
especially. Military checkpoints usually are mobile, not always in the
same place. Sometimes none of the soldiers speaks English which may
delay things a bit. The checkpoints can be especially disconcerting to
Americans because we don’t have them in the US. Young, heavily armed
soldiers stop vehicles and question the occupants and may search the
vehicle. In almost all cases with motorcycles the search is perfunctory.
They are mostly curious about what you have packed and within a few
minutes you’re on your way. If there is a long line at the checkpoint,
motorcycles can jump to the head of it.
State and Federal police checkpoints are usually in a fixed location,
have trailers or buildings and may have inspection pits to look under
vehicles. They too are polite and someone will usually speak some
English.
Traffic Offences: You might be stopped for a real or phony offense. If
you are stopped by highway police who drive black and whites like the
California Highway Patrol and their car says something like Federales de
Caminos, they are incorruptible. They may just chew you out or give you
a ticket. Other police may look at the stop as a revenue (for them)
generating opportunity. Never keep more than $50 in your wallet. They
may offer to settle the “fine” on the spot and quote some outrageous
amount. You can usually settle for some amount less than you have in
your wallet saying you need money for gas, a phone call, etc. It rarely
happens outside of very large cities, but it’s always a risk. In my
opinion it is better to settle on the spot rather than have them
confiscate your license. You then have to go to the city to appear
before a judge to get it back. Between the inconvenience and the expense
of hotels, etc. it’s easier to arrange something by the side of the
road.
Repair parts: There are about a half dozen BMW motorcycle dealerships in
Mexico and a parts warehouse in Toluca outside Mexico City. Coupled with
the excellent bus service in Mexico, parts can be delivered anywhere
within a few days. The problem comes in paying for the parts. Credit
cards are not accepted over the phone; they must be presented and
processed in person. However it may be possible to get parts without
having to go to the dealership yourself. One dealer said funds could be
deposited in their account in a bank with a local branch. Once the
dealership verified the deposit the parts would be shipped. |
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| From: Dtop1 1/23/2003 2:58 pm 3453.374 in reply to
3453.372 |
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Here's the third and final part of the trip, the return
from the Guatemalan border to San Diego. Dan
Homeward Bound
We crossed the border from Guatemala to Mexico and checked in with
Customs and Immigration. Bruce Rogers and I still had our Mexican
tourist permits and temporary vehicle importation permits so, after a
quick check, we were sent on our way without paying anything more. We
had started the day in Antigua, Guat. and our day’s destination was the
pleasant town of Comitán, Chiapas. The next day was cold and foggy with
light rain. Our plan was to ride to the remote town of Simojovel where
amber has been mined by the Indians for thousands of years. However we
stopped in San Cristóbal de las Casas to warm up with a hot chocolate
and decided to spend the night even though we had arrived well before
noon. Much of the amber mined in Simojovel is made into jewelry and sold
in San Cristóbal. It was only a month until Christmas so Bruce and I
solved a lot of Christmas shopping problems with amber jewelry.
The next day’s weather was pleasant and we dropped out of the mountains
to the coastal plain along the Pacific. In doing so we had to brave the
fierce winds blowing over the Isthmus of Tehuantepec. For 300+ days a
year winds blow between the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific along a 200
mile corridor. All manner of vehicles are blown over by the winds.
Coming down a mountain we passed a double tractor trailer on its side.
Stopping to take a foto we and the bikes were almost knocked over a
number of times by strong gusts. On the flat we fought the winds for
more than 150 miles until we reached the coastal mountain range and
tucked behind it. The GS’s were very stable in the cross winds but a
KLR650 with German plates and outfitted for touring that we passed
struggled to stay upright.
I thought I remembered a nice hotel on a beach ahead so, even though
darkness was near, we continued along the coast. The road is 2-lane,
narrow and the jungle presses right to the edge of the pavement casting
long shadows on the road making riding difficult. I came around a
sweeper only to see about 1/3 of my lane gone. The bike’s wheels missed
the edge of a long drop by inches. Normally road hazards like that are
marked by branches or a cairn of stones in the road, but there was
nothing. Shadows across the road would make early morning and late
afternoon riding stressful for the rest of the ride along the Pacific
coast.
It got dark and still no nice hotel on the beach. The next town we came
to had a motel but after riding into the parking area we decided not to
stay. I remembered doing the same thing at this same motel 10 years
earlier. Another town half an hour farther had a slightly better motel
but it was still the worst place we stayed the whole trip. It was dark
by the time we arrived so we had no choice; it’s too dangerous to
continue in the dark. Our room was very noisy, had no glass in the
windows, no hot water and water ran out of the shower into the room, no
toilet seat nor door to the toilet. Fortunately the bug spray we carried
finished off the biting insects. There was safe parking for the bikes
and the taco stand just up the street featured cow udder tacos.
Mountains touch the Pacific coast of Mexico so the road is very curvy,
plunges and rises, has little traffic and services are scarce. Gas can
be a problem and twice we had to buy gas from roadside gas sellers.
Animals on the road are also a problem, especially pigs and donkeys. The
pigs are unpredictable, darting across the road unexpectedly. The
donkeys are just there eating roadside vegetation. Sight lines on curves
are short because of the jungle vegetation and shadows can obscure what
might be seen. We’d had our fill of curves so were riding with plenty of
safety margin and were able to dodge the hazards.
Acapulco is a large, congested city but there is a way around it using a
toll road to get to a free, bypass road. Our entrance to the toll road
was something else again. We entered going against traffic on an exit
ramp with a toll station. After exiting cars paid the toll, we paid ours
(still going against traffic)then had to get onto the road itself by a
right hand, 360 deg. turn across the high speed lanes. Almost
immediately we were hit up for another toll only to exit the toll road
15 minutes later. Those 15 minutes cost us $8 apiece in tolls. But it
was worth it to avoid Acapulco. About 100 miles north of Acapulco we
passed the nice hotel on the coast I was looking for a few days earlier.
My memory had located it on the wrong part of the coast.
We arrived early at my favorite beach town in Mexico, Zihuátenejo, and
got a nice room at a hotel on the beach near a fun restaurant, La Sirena
Gorda (The Fat Mermaid). The fishermen still pull their pangas up on the
beach to sell their catch. It’s nice to go there early in the morning,
drink coffee and help to pull the boats up on the beach. Returning to
the hotel after breakfast the next morning we heard an ear splitting,
high pitched whine. A honey wagon was pumping out a sewage sump right
under the window of our room. The noise was awful but the smell was what
drove us out of the room. After they stopped we had to air out the room
before we could enter to pack our gear and get out of there. Evidently
it happens every day. I’m sure we were given that room because, when we
checked in, they knew we’d only be there for one night.
The road from Zihuátanejo to Manzanillo follows a desolate, undeveloped
section of coast with beautiful views. We stopped at a beach named
Maruata, a turtle sanctuary, for lunch. An American was living there in
a bus and had an older BMW (an R60?) parked next to it. We got a message
to him that we were there on Beemers but he was very reclusive and not
interested in talking to us. The fresh fish lunch and the water crossing
to get to the place made the side trip to this beach worthwhile anyway.
On the way out just after crossing the water again we stopped to talk to
a German rider on a Honda Africa Twin who had been riding since May on a
trip starting in Canada and going to Tierra del Fuego.
Once we got past Manzanillo Bruce and I were in familiar territory
having ridden the route last year. It took us 5 days to ride from there
to San Diego. The worst weather of the trip occurred the last two days
in Mexico. It rained quite heavily and was windy. The road was mostly 2
lane with heavy truck traffic so the riding was stressful. We crossed
the border at Sonoyta, Sonora and rode to Ajo, AZ in the dark in search
of a room. Water was running heavily across the low spots in the road
and we worried about being caught out in the desert between high water
areas on the road. Fortunately we made it to Ajo and got the last room
in town.
The last day was just a slab run to San Diego. The whole trip took 30
days, including a week of not riding in Guatemala, and the r/t was 6700
miles. Our costs through Mexico averaged $50 pp/day. It was a great
trip, we had a fun time on and off the bikes and had no problems of any
consequence except for the bent front rim on my GS. |
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| From: Forkless_D Oct-25 3:06 pm 3453.745 in reply to
3453.744 |
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Obviously this identifies a problem with such a long
thread though....information gets buried in the hundreds of messages
previous and besides Tony's website, there's nowhere to go to see a
"summary" of items we want or need for this ride.
As a newbie, it seems like most of you know each other by your webname,
but I find it hard to invision who's talking to who and where everyone
resides. Obviously, I have lots of questions. :-)
I would be glad to volunteer my Type A personality services towards a
registrar position where details and contact information is kept
regarding all of us. Things like e-mail addresses, emergency contact
info, bike model (spare parts list), intended start and end locations,
etc... A repository of information that would be shared with all riders
and allow the organizers to access this info at a glance and do what
they do best. For example: If we had this list we could identify who
(how many) are interested in this Medjet service and start getting group
pricing. |
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From: Dtop1 Oct-25 6:57 pm 3453.747 in reply to 3453.738
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I carry the insurance from MedJet,
http://www.medjetassistance.com/ .
It is $200/yr for an individual and $300/family with discounts if you
buy longer term. If you tell them you want the motorcycle policy they
will also include returning your bike if you are hurt in the US, Canada
or Mexico for no extra premium cost. I ride out of the country
frequently and like the feeling of security it gives me in case a
serious injury or illness. |
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| From: rydnfool Oct-27 12:30 pm 3453.755 in reply to
3453.751 |
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One still has to contend with the Darien, so we should
check to see if a round trip is cheaper[without deadlines of course]if
we choose to fly from Panama to Equador. |
Adventure Riding - 2006 Americas Ride Time
Plan The Motorcycle Tourer's Forum #12732.1 (Closed, 12/11/2004)
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| From: AL2000 (1343) Oct-1 1:06 pm 12732.1 |
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Attention Dream Catchers!
We need to establish the starting and ending dates soon. Obviously, this
will also dictate the time allowed for the ride. When we seem to have a
consensus we will vote on the dates. Keep in mind that this is a group
ride and it is not likely that everything will go exactly as we would
like for an individual ride.
We encourage participation by all members but only REGISTERED Dream
Catchers will be allowed to vote. |
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| From: Chris (CHRISHESTER) Oct-1 1:57 pm 12732.2 in reply
to 12732.1 |
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I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I saw in
your other thread that the record is 35 days! Wow, that's almost
unbelievable. There is no way I would be able to be part of the record
group.
Do you know when the record was set? I can't see a 35 day window that
would be accessible at both extreme ends of this ride. I think you would
have to deal with snow at one end or the other. |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) Oct-1 2:12 pm 12732.3 in reply to
12732.2 |
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I want this thread to be focused on the Americas Ride
and not the Americas Endurance Ride but here is the information from the
IBA website:
Ultimate Americas Challenge (Prudhoe Bay, Alaska to Ushuaia, Argentina)
Name Home Town Date Motorcycle Mileage/Days
Kevin Sanders Cambridge, ENGLAND 08/18/03 BMW R1150GS 35*
Julia Sanders (passenger) 08/18/03 BMW R1150GS 35*
* Guinness Record - for more information see
www.globebusters.com *** |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) Oct-2 10:08 am 12732.6 in reply to
12732.1 |
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The World Record Ride started in Deadhorse on August 18
and ended September 22.
I have yet to read the report of the ride to see how the couple felt out
this decision but this gives us something to think about. I would think
that if we start later in Deadhorse that it would just be better in
Argentina. So I would think the Dream Snatchers could live with whatever
start the Dream Catchers choose.
Once we see the time table for the Dream Catchers, it might also be a
possibility that the Dream Snatchers would start later and meet the
Dream Catchers at the Columbia jump over. This would make sense if it
would be cheaper due to the number of riders, assuming that both groups
will be doing the same route. |
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| From: bigtexrider Oct-2 10:14 am 12732.7 in reply to
12732.6 |
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>>Once we see the time table for the Dream Catchers, it
might also be a possibilty that the Dream Snatchers would start later
and meet the Dream Catchers at the Columbia jump over<<
I think you have just hit on a great suggestion. No way we "sniffers"
could stay up with the power runners and be in Columbia at the same
time. A money saving factor is a major consideration. |
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| From: Bobbtodd Oct-2 6:49 pm 12732.8 in reply to 12732.7 |
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>>Once we see the time table for the Dream Catchers, it
might also be a possibilty that the Dream Snatchers would start later
and meet the Dream Catchers at the Columbia jump over<<
I think you have just hit on a great suggestion. No way we "sniffers"
could stay up with the power runners and be in Columbia at the same
time. A money saving factor is a major consideration.
...................
I just clued in that I will be retired in time for this ride. Just need
a BIG kitchen pass |
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| From: Forkless_D Nov-30 2:47 pm 12732.25 in reply to
12732.24 |
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Am I missing something, or is there a timeline
defined somewhere in this thread? My understanding from Tony was that
the leisurely ride would depart from Prudhoe Bay approx. Aug. 15th and
be on the road for roughly 3 months before shipping back from Buenos
Aires. Has this been discussed in detail somewhere else or is it still
in the air?
PS. I'm hoping to extend my stay through the winter (4-5 months longer)
and ride back to Canada. |
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| From: JasonJonas (nankoweap) Nov-30 4:11 pm 12732.26 in
reply to 12732.25 |
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i don't think we've talked about this to any great
extent other than tony's original thoughts on the matter.
i think you and i have already talked about our mutual desire to ride
back to the states as opposed to shipping the bike and flying back.
alan's down with that approach as well. i'm sure there are others. all i
know is that i'm riding home. :) |
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| From: AL2000 (1343) Nov-30 4:30 pm 12732.27 in reply to
12732.25 |
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Go to the Research thread that I referred to in the
other message. My goal is to have riders assigned to each country soon
and then get input with regard to the initial route as established by
Tony and Dave.
We will start voting in January. My proposal is that we have an open
ended start and an open ended finish but we will all meet on a fixed
date in Panama. However, this will be voted on by the Dreamcatchers
after we get some better research. |
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